Because of some of the non-standard types of projects we get in the industrial/chemical world, there are quite often times when NFPA Standards are silent regarding design criteria. It is not uncommon to defer to FM or API or other recognized industry standards for design guidance as they often have the specific technical expertise in these unique environments.
With that being said, I have many times had to refer to another Standard apart from NFPA for design criteria and have not encountered an AHJ that has questioned or rejected the design because it didn't come from NFPA. It may be questioned but we turn that query into an educational moment because not every project can fit in the little NFPA 13 box. Just not happening. In the chemical world alone, the evolution of science and technology moves so fast that NFPA Standards in no way keep up. In warehousing and storage, NFPA is way behind some of the proposed commodities and storage methodology. So we are pretty much forced to go to those sources that have performed actual testing and have design recommendations. It is not uncommon to combine some aspects of NFPA criteria with other Non-NFPA criteria in a project. If the AHJ is hesitant, it's a matter of providing adequate information to appease their concern. But to force-fit some conditions into an NFPA 13 criteria may actually create a greater hazard. Many AHJ's are not engineers, but they do want to be assured that you are doing your job correctly and not putting people in danger due to a sub-standard design that you just "thunk up". Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Byron Weisz Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 13 & FM Mix Thanks all but the real answer is there currently is no section in NFPA #13 that addresses this issue. BUT - please read the commentary on page 609 and 610 of the Automatic Sprinkler Systems Handbook ( 2013 Edition) to be enlightened. Thanks Tom Wellen!! We all are aware that NFPA #13 does not address all storage applications and many design solutions will come from FM. Most Fire Jurisdictions do not recognize FM as a design standard so an Alternate Means & Methods document is submit which is allowed trough the building code. We have found a few jurisdictions and consultants who have read this commentary and have interesting interpretations that we are working through. Thanks, Byron Weisz Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. 1615 So. Stockton St. Lodi, CA. 95240 Ph. (209) 334-9119 Fax (209) 334-2923 [email protected] This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication and attachments is strictly prohibited. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 6:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 13 & FM Mix I agree sort of without a specific example. I don't do a lot of FM work so I don't know of any place you can't comply with both. Less is not equivalent. Only the AHJ can determine equivalent. You don't have to comply with both if they conflict, you have to comply with NFPA 13. Like Ron said two submittals will often work to make everyone happy when FM is more. I get FM typically has more relevant data that often shows equivalency as far as the ability to suppress a fire. But all the pictures and video in the world don't help if the AHJ sticks with particular NFPA 13 design over an FM design. Chris Cahill, PE* Associate Fire Protection Engineer Burns & McDonnell Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com *Registered in: MN Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Denhardt Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 7:28 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: NFPA 13 & FM Mix But in some-storage cases you not comply with both with out using NFPA's equivalency approach. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 12, 2015, at 8:25 AM, "Cahill, Christopher" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > You are most likely legally obligated to provide the minimums of NFPA 13. > You may sign a contract to provide more, but not less. FM or silly PE > requirements might be examples. > > Chris Cahill, PE* > Associate Fire Protection Engineer > Burns & McDonnell > Phone: 952.656.3652 > Fax: 952.229.2923 > [email protected] > www.burnsmcd.com > *Registered in: MN > > > Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work > For > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Gregg Fontes > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 6:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: NFPA 13 & FM Mix > > I have a quick question that I need a fast answer to. Where is it in NFPA 13 > 2013 Edition that you cannot mix the two design standards? (I.E. you either > design per NFPA 13 or FM Global. You cannot pick and choose.) > > Thanks, > Gregg Fontes > Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. > 209-334-9119 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
