Hello Ken, thanks for responding.
So California adopts the IFC with California amendments and then calls it the CFC, correct? -----Original Message----- From: Parsley Consulting <[email protected]> To: sprinklerforum <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 10:27 am Subject: Re: PIV Supervion, lock or tamper switch? Owen, The California Fire Code is very specific, and it would seem unambiguous for the conditions you describe. 903.4 Sprinkler system supervision and alarms. All valves controlling the water supply for automatic sprinkler systems, pumps, tanks, water levels and temperatures, critical air pressures and water-flow switches on all sprinkler systems shall be electrically supervised by a listed fire alarm control unit. Exceptions: 1. Automatic sprinkler systems protecting one- and two-family dwellings. Doesn't apply to the buildings you've described 2. Limited area systems serving fewer than 20 sprinklers. Doesn't apply to the buildings you've described 3. Automatic sprinkler systems installed in accordance with NFPA 13R where a common supply main is used to supply both domestic water and the automatic sprinkler system, and a separate shutoff valve for the automatic sprinkler system is not provided. Depending on the underground supply, might or might not apply 4. Jockey pump control valves that are sealed or locked in the open position. Doesn't apply to the PIV 5. Control valves to commercial kitchen hoods, paint spray booths or dip tanks that are sealed or locked in the open position. Doesn't apply to the PIV 6. Valves controlling the fuel supply to fire pump engines that are sealed or locked in the open position. Doesn't apply to the PIV 7. Trim valves to pressure switches in dry, preaction and deluge sprinkler systems that are sealed or locked in the open position. Doesn't apply to the PIV It does appear, based entirely on the information you've provided, that electrical supervision is required for the PIV. And, not to split hairs or to be pedantic, California is not under the regulations in the 2013 IFC. California, as it does with almost everything, has made it's own modifications to that document and has issued the 2013 California Fire Code, which has as of January 1 been replaced with the 2016 edition of the CFC. Chapter 80 of that document contains a list of the applicable editions of various standards and codes, including the NFPA documents. Further, that chapter of the CFC contains language on changes to the NFPA documents. As an example - in California, the reduction of the remote area size for use of quick response sprinklers in an area with a ceiling height of 20' or less is not allowed in ordinary hazard occupancies, even though NFPA 13 does allow that reduction. I've had to deal with some terribly angry contractors who were unaware of those provisions. They've said some pretty creative and hostile things when I've pointed them out, including some I'm sure aren't true, as I have a photo of my parents' wedding, and it was 14 years before I was born! sincerely, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 Escondido, California 92025 Phone 760-745-6181 Visit our website On 01/23/2017 9:25 AM, Owen Evans wrote: As most of you know, I work exclusively with 13D systems. I do on occasion get questions on the big boy systems, 13 and 13R. The property in question is a boutique hotel, two buildings. One building is a two story, fifty room hotel and the other building is two story, restaurant on the first floor and banquet facility on second floor with a roof deck. Each building has a FDC and a PIV. I am in California which is under the 2013 IFC. I recently had the question asked "does the PIV require electrical supervision?" NFPA states a lock is adequate, the 2013 IFC states electrical supervision is required, with exceptions. I get different answers form different people. I'm thinking it's the more restrictive 2013 IFC. Which is it? Thank you, Owen Evans _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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