It is another contractor providing the hood system. Our system is already designed, permitted, installed and inspected. They are trying to get a building final (and hood final) within a week and the hood contractor just now brings up the fact he needs water.
Thank you to everyone for the responses. At this point it's not really our problem. I would agree that they could tie into the underground/riser below the control/check valve as a "separate system", but we don't want it tied into the overhead. The system was not calculated for the additional psi/flow and as was said the cleaning cycle would trigger flow alarms. Eric V. Tysinger Designer Wiginton Fire Systems - Miami, FL Email: [email protected] Main: 305-888-2402 Direct: 305-830-0490 Fax: 305-888-3804 Mobile: 239-633-9703 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 3:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hood System - Question The Piranha system is only fire suppression. This system has multiple functions where it is a cleaning system AND a fire suppression system. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Williams Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 3:27 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hood System - Question [EXTERNAL] How is this different than an Ansul Piranha system (as far as the connection to the sprinkler system?). We are required to use something like the Piranha in some jurisdictions so the system continues to function after the agent is gone (same thing for Clean Agent.. must have 20-60 minute duration). Or any other pre-piping that can be supplied by the kitchen hood manufacturers? Is it that some other contractor is supplying the equipment? David Toshio Williams, PE/FPE, LEED-AP O+M (218) 279-2436 direct | (218) 310-2446 cell LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Phillips Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:17 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hood System - Question We have run into that before in large hotels etc. Its for FIRE protection so people assume that sprinkler contractor will be tying into it. We always push back and have the plumbing contractor supply to it. Do so by saying if it connects to the fire sprinkler system there needs to be a valve and that valves needs to be monitored and then it snowballs into its just easier for plumbing to add it as if was a ice machine etc. IMHO From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric V. Tysinger Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 3:05 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hood System - Question Yes that is it, first time ever seeing it and my initial thought was it's not part of the sprinkler system and I couldn't find any guidance in NFPA 13 about non-system connections that discharge water. Section 7.7 addresses connections for heating and cooling but clearly state there can be no water discharge from those auxiliary systems. Eric V. Tysinger Designer Wiginton Fire Systems - Miami, FL Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Main: 305-888-2402 Direct: 305-830-0490 Fax: 305-888-3804 Mobile: 239-633-9703 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:50 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hood System - Question Is what you're referring to the Captive Aire's CORE fire suppression system? https://secure-web.cisco.com/19ZHcCEdUbGNfvY7uSLHExQ6pGIhbtrzMy0OK4K2ihL_cNtZMRdYyPizCHvuB6LcmEPVxaGv5dYr3LFSbjgqBg0JUn7JUPw78Ef43xJeG2ee9XNsWS7vyTWx3fXdioVF8GeVm3Vje7x21YaG19boE-3j9KbFa7mRXWNe-5p1ZFT5jTFaQRe4TILQrMJsPsMpKtRQzqS06Psanwbq7DdX9x-ebpEooS3JsqwbEQv1jHwZ-xPw0cUHkUQygnFWO_WGKvbE0IXVxoUv38uIPojYHOuBTDF8-F5BYw8Y3JEW0rsk6YM7k_-zzTLNYbeK2Csz1EHiNYV6czWRwxYYGxJ-AhXfcSLf0fVg7mHVyXpvdo4J28Q9GHkUjkKDNudd2zCNOaFb-9Feuaui5EeQSKsmGx6n3sW1G59rwS7xC3PdcKB0DU9sult5kZ8ocRwLhPcodtHrx7Yqm9ozqvowQk60__rD6Qr3kMvoUd_2Wm8KCKTk/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.captiveaire.com%2Fcatalogcontent%2Ffiresuppression%2Fcore%2Findex.asp Interesting system for cleaning and suppression. It uses water combined with a surfactant to make it work. Apparently it is ETL listed to UL 300 standards and meets criteria of NFPA 17A (wet chemical extinguishing systems) and NFPA 96. Looks like it can be tied into plumbing systems or building sprinkler system. So what NFPA language would prevent this from being connected to the sprinkler system? Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric V. Tysinger Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:33 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hood System - Question [EXTERNAL] I don't have the exact model yet but the manufacturer is Captive Aire. I meant approved/listed in the sense "as a hood system" not as a part of a fire sprinkler system. Eric V. Tysinger Designer Wiginton Fire Systems - Miami, FL Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Main: 305-888-2402 Direct: 305-830-0490 Fax: 305-888-3804 Mobile: 239-633-9703 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:28 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hood System - Question You say it's "approved and listed". If that is the case, why would it not be allowed? Do you have a link to this unit? Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric V. Tysinger Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:06 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Hood System - Question [EXTERNAL] Good afternoon all, Apparently, there is a standalone approved/listed type of hood suppression system for kitchens that uses water as the extinguishing agent. Within their data sheet it states that it requires a supervised water source "or" that it may be tied into the fire sprinkler system. It has a minimum required starting water pressure of 30psi and "IF" it is supplied/tied into the sprinkler system then it would most definitely have to be accounted for in the hydraulics. But, it is obviously not a part of the fire sprinkler system or NFPA 13. My first thought is that regardless of their data sheet, it shouldn't be allowed per NFPA 13. Am I thinking correctly? Wouldn't it be considered a non-system component and not allowed? [cid:[email protected]] Eric V. Tysinger Designer Wiginton Fire Systems - Miami, FL Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Main: 305-888-2402 Direct: 305-830-0490 Fax: 305-888-3804 Mobile: 239-633-9703 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
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