Just kick this back to the engineer (🙈🙉🙊) and have him/her tell you what to do. Per SFPE & ASCET you're not qualified to decide. This cracks me up every time I read it. 😹
"The Engineer's responsibilities for the design include but are not limited to: 1. *Evaluate the broad range of hazards and protection schemes* required to develop a workable, integrated solution to a fire safety problem. 2. Prepare design documents for fire protection systems. This includes: - Conceptual and detailed engineering documents - *Hazard and risk analyses* - *Layout fire protection systems* - *Perform necessary calculations for all fire protection system* [edited]" "The fire protection engineering technician (hereinafter referred to as a "Technician") is an individual who has achieved NICET Level III or IV certification [1] in the appropriate subfield and who has the knowledge, experience, and skills necessary to layout fire protection systems. Based on engineering design documents, which include the system(s) design drawings, specifications and nationally recognized codes and standards, the Technician is qualified to: 1. Perform the system layout in accordance with the Engineer's design. 2. Prepare shop drawings and material submittals in accordance with the Engineer's design for review and approval by the Engineer. 3. Perform *supplemental calculations* and other functions based on the Engineer's design for review and approval by the Engineer. [edited]" Ron Greenman [email protected] 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-) On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 12:07 PM, joseph kuerzi <[email protected]> wrote: > I understand hazard classification is based on the fire load and the rates > of heat release of materials and processes being protected. With those > parameters, we choose hazard classification and provide a density for say > Ordinary Hazard Group II - 0.20 gpm/sqft over a design area 1500 sqft to > contain a fire (less if with quick response reduction). I have inspected > many schools and visited their shop classes over the years. Materials, > dust, paint spray booths and the storage of student projects well exceed > the 1500 sqft design areas, so the hazard is present. NFPA 13 - 5.3.1 Ord > Haz I may easily be picked with no quantitative amounts stated. But, the > appendix A.5.3.2 suggests as explanatory reference that Wood Product > Assembly and Wood Machining are Ord Haz II with no distinction in > commercial or educational use. Pre - 1991 listed Wood Machining as Ord Haz > III. I mainly wanted to get the forums input/debate on how others > classified this hazard. > > > Sincerely, > Joe Kuerzi Jr., SET > > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018, 6:52:30 PM EDT, Mark.Phelps < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > I wasn't arguing for light hazard. Only that in my opinion it should be > ordinary 1 and not extra as a commercial shop would be. We at Aero have > installed sprinklers in well over 300 schools and had to argue with both > AHJ's and consultants (present company excluded) over things like running > 8" fire lines into classroom buildings. It's a horrible waste of school > funding resources. > > Mark at Aero > 602 820-7894 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 21, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > wrote: > > All true, but apples to oranges. A commercial woodshop is a step above a > school woodshop. We do an awful lot of schools work and you would be amazed > at what a modern high school woodshop looks like Mark. Multi station dust > collectors are the norm. It's definitely at least an ordinary hazard. A > commercial wood shop is Extra Hazard, the debate there being whether it's > Group 1 or Group 2. > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: "Mark.Phelps" <[email protected]> > Date: 4/21/18 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Wood Shop Classroom Classification of Hazard > > The one thing I would add to this is to compare the fire loading between a > commercial cabinet/wood shop and the classroom environment. A typical > commercial shop would have sheet goods and lumber inventory for hundreds of > cabinets, as well as hundreds of boxed finished goods. A typical wood shop > classroom environment would have nothing close to that. > > Mark at Aero > 602 820-7894 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 21, 2018, at 3:34 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > wrote: > > NFPA 13 speaks to the nature of the use, not just the label of a > particular building or compartment. If it has fire load, or processes, or > byproduct of those processes that make it more hazardous, then it's more > hazardous. Out here in California were used to fire protecting vocational > technology and science and shop (auto, wood, metal) classrooms to the > higher hazard classification because they may contain pressurized natural > gas, welding or soldering, flammable liquids, open burners higher levels of > dust, etc. > > I agree with you - stay the course. > > Steve L. > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: joseph kuerzi <[email protected]> > Date: 4/21/18 11:42 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: [email protected] > Subject: Wood Shop Classroom Classification of Hazard > > I interpret the hazard classification of 3000sqft Wood Shop Classroom > (High/Middle School) as Ordinary II - Wood Machining/Wood Product > Assembly. I was told that I was incorrect in my classification since it > was a classroom and not a Woodshop Facility. I can not find justification > in the standards to down grade the hazard classification to Light or > Ordinary I just because the room is a classroom. Am I missing something? > NFPA 13, 2010ed and IBC 2012 > > Sincerely, > Joe Kuerzi Jr., SET > > Certified Protection Services LLC > 175 Sky Aire Rd. NW > Corydon, IN 47112 > > Fire Protection & Water Back-flow Prevention Systems > Installation, Maintenance, Repair, & Inspections > > Contact - Joseph C. Kuerzi Jr., SET > 812-738-2970 office > 502-551-8530 mobile *preferred > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists. > firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum- > 2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwICAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=dLwiR71i_ > XhSFqam3ZLeaFLiQJ3cDTUB0ReB4-yDDcg&m=GV9x52NVphDNsWHM5QokaLumr6hpYX > TeynUOAypTGXk&s=S4pTAkCBlvSSlKqf_9PKE9CDSPCxOW775TQzzEPe0Ac&e= > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists. > firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum- > 2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwICAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=dLwiR71i_ > XhSFqam3ZLeaFLiQJ3cDTUB0ReB4-yDDcg&m=VxRj6csysDJib4c298RMrq49ChSjYA > RyTwtWvkzzbKA&s=K39Gf4f7sziUCP7yys1-tj7ekZJBCY4pnzPqJdoLg8c&e= > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > >
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