Yeah, once you have to decide between buying 400 pendents or 400 dry pendents, it’s a little easier to find yourself on the unconservative (non-conservative? Liberal?)... the side that doesn’t want to spend that much money.
I know that isn’t a popular opinion around here sometimes, but that’s how it is. Were trying to do the right thing, but I don’t know that there’s a good way to justify spending that kind of money just to be on the safe side. But that’s why I ask the question, to get some diverse feedback. -Kyle M On Apr 2, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: We see these installations in 40k sq ft areas and more. It is a huge cost impact. John has a great point. But I don’t have the PE letters behind my name so I tend to be a bit on the conservative side. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET 480-505-9271 MFP Design, LLC www.mfpdesign,com Send large files to MFP Design via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hightail.com_u_MFPDesign&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=KryIueb30FAd26l6mZm7ybtajJBrvtYT4CVj0Mtjr-I&s=V3Eiwc4ZZsRzGPRY80TQaO6x2N0LfjQnxcApcA1dh4I&e=> Sent from my iPhone On Apr 2, 2019, at 7:27 PM, Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: John, I understand your position, but most of this type of installation I see is 8 sprinklers or less. I don’t think that dry vs standard sprinklers in this type of installation have a significant impact to fire protection. I would prefer to err on the side of caution. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-553-3553 (fax) 860-608-4559 (cell) On Apr 2, 2019 at 8:50 PM, <John Denhardt<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I fully understand you position but the standard has involved in my opinion. If the piping is not subject to freezing, normal sprinklers and a wet system provide better fire protection for the building and the owner. (My personal opinion) The current NFPA 13s allow it. There is additional language in the standard where the system can be exposed to temperatures below 32F for short periods. John John August Denhardt, P.E. 301.343.1457 - Mobile From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Fpdcdesign Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 8:23 PM To: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: Dry Pendents Required in Coolers? There is a magic number of 40degF that shows up a lot in 13 for wet vs dry. I use the same for determining dry pendent vs wet. Under 40degF COOLER, DRY PENDENT. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-553-3553 (fax) 860-608-4559 (cell) On Apr 2, 2019 at 7:51 PM, <John Denhardt<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I have done it many times and never had an issue. I receive a letter from the cooler box stating the lowest temperature the box can reach. In most cases, there are inter-locks to shut down the refrigeration system down if it drops below a preset temperature. Also, cold air does sink. The cost, reliability (in the past) and future testing makes me not want to utilize dry type sprinklers unless absolutely necessary. Thanks, John John August Denhardt, P.E. 301.343.1457 - Mobile From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Nick Maneen Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 7:46 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Dry Pendents Required in Coolers? I wouldn't. Water begins to expand about 37/38 degrees. The key word is to me is "reliably". There are all kinds of scenarios where that temperature can drop. The standard is set for a generic situation, not a specific one. Also, my own home refrigerator has spots colder than the overall ambient temperature. There is too much risk for not enough reward. Nick Maneen 704-791-7789 On Tue, Apr 2, 2019, 7:38 PM Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: 2019 NFPA 13: 16.4.1.1 Where any portion of a system is subject to freezing AND the temperatures cannot be reliably maintained at or above 40 degrees F, the system shall be installed as a dry pipe or preaction system. I’m sure this has been discussed before, but the above statement requires two conditions: 1. System is subject to freezing 2. The temperatures cannot be reliably maintained at or above 40 degrees F It says AND, so it has to be both, not one or the other, right? So if I have a 38 degree F cooler, is it fair to say that it is not “subject to freezing”, and thus does not require protection? Is it acceptable to drop a wet pendent head into the cooler, rather than use a dry pendent? -Kyle M _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=KryIueb30FAd26l6mZm7ybtajJBrvtYT4CVj0Mtjr-I&s=bmXRAXyl9zqYO7lvPrJQji8RaiTxbYjRsCLSWnptsBQ&e=> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=KryIueb30FAd26l6mZm7ybtajJBrvtYT4CVj0Mtjr-I&s=bmXRAXyl9zqYO7lvPrJQji8RaiTxbYjRsCLSWnptsBQ&e=> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=KryIueb30FAd26l6mZm7ybtajJBrvtYT4CVj0Mtjr-I&s=bmXRAXyl9zqYO7lvPrJQji8RaiTxbYjRsCLSWnptsBQ&e=> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=KryIueb30FAd26l6mZm7ybtajJBrvtYT4CVj0Mtjr-I&s=bmXRAXyl9zqYO7lvPrJQji8RaiTxbYjRsCLSWnptsBQ&e=> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwICAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=KryIueb30FAd26l6mZm7ybtajJBrvtYT4CVj0Mtjr-I&s=bmXRAXyl9zqYO7lvPrJQji8RaiTxbYjRsCLSWnptsBQ&e=
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