Tagging on to the point Travis raised regarding the potential cost of a
meter upsize.
There is a water purveyor in San Diego County which has established a
_*minimum*_ meter size of 2" for a sprinkler system designed to NFPA 13,
with the potential for even larger devices should the demand exceed the
listed capacity of the 2" model.
The following are their published cost of the meter to their customers:
* 1" $2,200
* 1¼" $4,500
* 1½" $8,000
* 2" $22,000
So taking into consideration the increased minimum meter upsize cost the
system has just been made $20K more expensive.
That's worth some discussion with the AHJ in my thinking.
*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone 760-745-6181*
Visit the website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> ***
On 12/06/2019 3:25 AM, Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum wrote:
Owen:
Weren’t you the one complaining that a couple hundred dollar flow test
was causing significant problems.
Now you want to make a detached garage in a 13D system to have NFPA 13
densities. Wouldn’t that require a full flow test there?
That meter upsize is likely far more expensive than the flow test.
13D is about making the systems cost effective to get them into homes
with less resistance.
Pure 13D says no sprinklers in the garage when it is attached. By
making it detached, there would be a more solid argument for not
putting sprinklers in it.
To the original question: If you have to protect the detached garage,
I would follow the requirements of 13D as modified by the local fire
code when applicable.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
480-505-9271 x700
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign,com
Send large files to MFP Design via:
https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 5, 2019, at 11:29 PM, Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
Owen:
1. Because it could trigger a meter up-size that might cost
$$thousands.
2. Because there's no statistical substantiation for
over-protecting a freestanding garage with dead attic space
above, If it was a dwelling unit above it would be a .05, so
why would a "basic" garage require more? According to NFPA,
fewer than 3% of home fires started in the garage, nearly all of
those from hot work.
3. Because it's not required by the code and referenced standards.
4. The reason it's not required is that the intent of home fire
sprinkler protection is life-safety and not property protection.
Now, if you're willing to subsidize the cost impact of a higher
density, I'm sure both the contractor and owner of the subject
property would love to hear from you. But why stop there - if you
look at it as a detached parking structure, the correct density is .15.
Steve L.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Sprinklerforum
<sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of
firstin--- via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 5, 2019 9:02 PM
*To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
*Cc:* firs...@aol.com <firs...@aol.com>
*Subject:* Re: Detached Garage
The thinking being why not spend a few extra bucks and protect the
structure and contents with greater density. Makes no sense to buy
time for escape with .05.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
This issue was not clearly defined in the current 2016 California
code set but if you look to the 2019, there is new material that
very clearly states that this would be per 13D. Utility occupancies
that are accessory to an SFD are to be protected by that standard.
Steve Leyton
(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
-------- Original message --------
From: Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Date: 12/5/19 7:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: jvankol...@mfpc.us
Subject: Detached Garage
I’m a little rusty on my 13D.
I have a residence with a detached 3 car garage with a non-storage
attic above about 860 sqft. If I’m to provide protect the structure
would it still fall under 13d?
Jerry Van Kolken
/_Millennium Fire Protection Corp._/
2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
Oceanside, CA 92058
(760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730
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