Agreed Rod. Yes, the 5000’s seem to have made the relatively easy Elkhart even easier. Glad they got away from the 1 1/16” deep socket. I do fair amount of 5-year PRV’s and find about 50% needing adjustment so I can relate to FD frustration. Also a fair % that fail due to lack of annual flowing in addition to 5 year. They cannot be fixed either and be careful when opening them up, those springs are as big as a 1 ton truck. I’ve cut a few down the middle just to see the corrosion.
I’ve been offering placards for FDC’s with required flow and pressure to meet design demand but many FD’s want pumper pressure and really only pumper pressure. It gets a little sticky for NH FDC’s when assuming lengths and quantities of discharge but I think it at least gives them a starting point. Some are pre-1999. TD From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Rod DiBona via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2020 1:19 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Rod DiBona <r...@rapidfireinc.com>; Travis Mack <tm...@mfpdesign.com>; Tom Wellen <tgwel...@gmail.com>; John Denhardt <jdenha...@stricklandfire.com>; Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com> Subject: RE: SprinkCAD Standpipe Calculation Results on Installation Plans Great information Steve. Glad it got shared to the forum even if by accident! Rod DiBona Chief Operating Officer Rapid Fire Protection, Inc 1530 Samco Road Rapid City, SD 57702 Office-605-348-2342 Cell- 605-391-3553 www.rapidfireinc.com <http://www.rapidfireinc.com/> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> > On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2020 11:12 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com <mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com> >; Travis Mack <tm...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:tm...@mfpdesign.com> >; John Denhardt <jdenha...@stricklandfire.com <mailto:jdenha...@stricklandfire.com> >; Tom Wellen <tgwel...@gmail.com <mailto:tgwel...@gmail.com> > Subject: RE: SprinkCAD Standpipe Calculation Results on Installation Plans PS: I didn’t notice that this was going out to the forum – thought I was chatting with Tom, Travis and John. The substance of the preceding email is my opinion only. Steve From: Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2020 10:10 AM To: 'sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org' Cc: John Denhardt; Travis Mack; Tom Wellen Subject: RE: SprinkCAD Standpipe Calculation Results on Installation Plans I recently attended HROC (High Rise Operations Conference) in Pensacola on the invitation of two NFPA 14 committee members who are active fire service. It’s a fire service-only event and I was the only civilian in attendance – to say that I learned a lot is a great understatement as it was possibly the most informative professional event I’ve ever attended. Also, I got an earful from firefighters, captains and chiefs who regularly use standpipes in mid- and high-rise buildings. The information in that card is VERY important to the engineer on the first due pumper. In fact, based on hearing about this from at least 8 or 9 different attendees at HROC, I’m going to introduce a committee input that would require that the inlet and outlet flow and pressure metrics be permanently labeled at each hose connection equipped with a pressure reducer. (On a side note, there is so much energy AGAINST factory-set PRV hose valves, you can’t imagine. Down to the last man and woman, firefighters want infinitely adjustable PRVs such as the Elkhart URFA and the new Zurn 5000 series.) Placing the basis of design on the documents is the first step and it enables enforcing the placement of the required signage at the inlet(s) and this information can literally shorten time-to-water by as much as 6-7 minutes by allowing the engineer to start pumping much closer to the target at the tip, regardless of whether the system has PRVs or not. I also agree with JD that format isn’t critical. SML From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2020 8:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: John Denhardt; Travis Mack; Tom Wellen Subject: RE: SprinkCAD Standpipe Calculation Results on Installation Plans Agree. We show the information NFPA 14 requires. Format is not critical but the information must be shown. Thanks, John John August Denhardt, P.E. Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated 4011 Penn Belt Place Forestville, Maryland 20747-4737 301.474.1136 - Office 301.343.1457 - Mobile From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> > On Behalf Of Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2020 11:31 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Travis Mack <tm...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:tm...@mfpdesign.com> >; Tom Wellen <tgwel...@gmail.com <mailto:tgwel...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: SprinkCAD Standpipe Calculation Results on Installation Plans We always show that exact sign indicated in A6.8 on the plans. Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET 480-505-9271 x700 MFP Design, LLC www.mfpdesign,com <http://www.mfpdesign,com> Send large files to MFP Design via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2020, at 9:25 AM, Tom Wellen via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > wrote: I requested that standpipe design information from calculations be provided on the plans per 6.8 and Figure A.6.8 of NFPA 14. The contractor indicated that SprinkCAD provide a standardized hydraulic result. That seems like a lame response. I'm sure another format or even text information could be provided rather than using NFPA 13's Hydraulic Calculation results for the design area. What do you provide the required information from 6.8? Tom Wellen _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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