We need a 'Like' button on the forum. Since we don't have one, Craig is right
on the money here.
Cliff Whitfield, SET
President
Fire Design, Inc.
600 W. Bypass Hwy. 19E
Suite 202
Burnsville, NC 28714
Ph: 828-284-4772
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf
Of Fpdcdesign via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 4:09 PM
To: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Fpdcdesign <fpdcdes...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System Calculation
My thoughts exactly, Mr Prahl.
>
> On Feb 11, 2021 at 3:46 PM, <Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum Prahl
> (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)> wrote:
>
>
>
> If I have 4-heads of OH2 in a 500 sf space I have to calc it and size
> everything as if I had a 1500 sf design area. Where’s the value? What greater
> level of Life Safety is provided? You should only have to calculate the
> actual area up to the prescribed area and not add some fictitious value,
> “just because”. Maybe we should just design everything using ESFR sprinklers,
> then you’d get all the flow you need. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME –
> Fire Protection | craig.pr...@jacobs.com
> (mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com)<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> |
> www.jacobs.com (http://www.jacobs.com)<http://www.jacobs.com/> 1041 East
> Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 (x-apple-data-detectors://6)
> CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS From: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
> (mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com) <travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
> (mailto:travis.m...@mfpdesign.com)> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:22
> PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org); b...@firebyknight.com
> (mailto:b...@firebyknight.com) Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL <craig.pr...@jacobs.com
> (mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com)> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System
> Calculation Tracey Bellamy, I believe, was the one to propose it. It had to
> deal with a loading dock and then having to grab ESFR sprinklers in the
> warehouse to get the 1950 sq ft if I recall correctly. I read the report a
> couple years ago. I see where he was coming from. The intent was good. But, I
> think there are a lot of unintended consequences from that section. Travis
> Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, COC, SET Engineering Manager MFP Design 3356 E
> Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 (x-apple-data-detectors://15/0) 480-505-9271
> ext. 700 (tel:480-505-9271;700) C: 480-272-2471 (tel:480-272-2471)
> travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
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> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
> (mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org)<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
> On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, February
> 11, 2021 1:20 PM To: b...@firebyknight.com
> (mailto:b...@firebyknight.com)<mailto:b...@firebyknight.com>;
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL <craig.pr...@jacobs.com
> (mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com)<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com>> Subject: RE:
> [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System Calculation This is something that really
> needs to be looked at I future editions of NFPA 13. I know we've had this
> discussion many times. I would love to hear how this came about. It offers no
> benefit to an owner and only increases cost. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group
> Lead/SME – Fire Protection | craig.pr...@jacobs.com
> (mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com)<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> |
> www.jacobs.com (http://www.jacobs.com)<http://www.jacobs.com> 1041 East
> Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 (x-apple-data-detectors://34)
> CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum
> <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
> (mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org)<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
> On Behalf Of Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, February 11,
> 2021 2:24 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Cc: Bob Knight <b...@firebyknight.com
> (mailto:b...@firebyknight.com)<mailto:b...@firebyknight.com>> Subject:
> [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System Calculation Joe, The AHJ's interpretation
> sounds incorrect. What is supposed to take place is as follows: 23.4.4.2.5
> Where the total design discharge from these operating sprinklers is less than
> the minimum required discharge determined by multiplying the required design
> density times the required minimum design area, an additional flow shall be
> added at the point of connection of the branch line to the cross main
> furthest from the source to increase the overall demand, not including hose
> stream allowance, to the minimum required discharge. In other words, we are
> now required to add additional flow to calculations when we are in a
> situation like yours. The minimum required flow for a 1500 sf design area for
> OH1 is 210 gpm, and the minimum required flow For 1950 sf is 292.5 gpm. If
> your areas are not flowing these minimus you will need to add the additional
> flow as stated above. It's a pain in the neck but other than one more step in
> the calc that's it. Thank you, Bob Knight, CET III Fire by Knight, LLC
> 208-318-3057 (tel:208-318-3057) -----Original Message----- From:
> Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
> Behalf Of Joe Burtell via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021
> 11:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Cc: Joe Burtell Subject: Multiple System Calculation I have a situation
> where an engineer is telling me I have to calculate a wet and dry system
> together because neither space meets the 1500 s.f minimum. I have a penthouse
> mechanical room OH 1 (WET) of 1014 s.f. and an adjacent room OH1 (DRY) of 469
> s.f. I have calculated each room separate of each other. There is a
> full-height wall with a door that separates the rooms. The wall and door are
> not fire rated, so the large room method is out. This does not make any sense
> to me. Any sections that would require this to be done. He is saying 11.1.2
> of NFPA 13 2016 requires it. I argue exception #2 says it does not apply.
> Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone |
> Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 (tel:406-204-4653) <++1-406-204-4653>*
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 (x-apple-data-detectors://50/1)
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