JP Shutoff 160 JP Cutin 150 FP1 Cutin 145 FP2 Cutin 140
FP1 and FP2 are Patterson HSC 1250 NET 120s with steel bolted 30 foot tanks. These are filled per UFC 03-600-01 with 200 GPM each well head pumps. The fill rates are NOT per NFPA but UFC. Controllers are Tornatech soft start. Don't know actual flow rate but it should be less than a standard 5.6K residential for the barracks. Yet to confirm. Good question. Main is 12". All laterals and risers are 6". Design was per 2013 UFC with some modifications. USACE. My AHJ is USNAVFACENGCOM. JP is supervised on, off and run. Heat trace is also supervised, on and off. ________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of Mike Morey via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 10:50 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Mike Morey <mmo...@shambaugh.com> Subject: RE: Fire Pump Shutdown Interesting scenario, if I can ask what are the starts and stops of the JP and FP? And what flow rating is the Jockey? That seems like a lot of flow for the jockey to build pressure back up high enough to cut the fire pump back out and leave it off after 10 minutes, and if the Jockey keeps up it's kind of surprising the initial drop is fast enough to bring both in before leveling off. Mike Morey CFPS 3229 . NICET S.E.T. 123677 Project Manager . Fire Protection Group Shambaugh & Son, LP an EMCOR Company 7614 Opportunity Drive . Fort Wayne, IN . 46825 direct 260.487.7824 / cell 260.417.0625 / fax 260.487.7991 email mmo...@shambaugh.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of BF Blake via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 2:44 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: BF Blake <bfbl...@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Fire Pump Shutdown BE ADVISED - This email originated outside EMCOR. Mike, Thanks In my case I can operate the ITC and get JP and FP to start, then FP stops at 10 minutes with the 1/2" still open and flowing. The ITC calculated flow is 70 GPM, the FP is 1250 GPM. Central station reporting is NOT operational here, but that is a side note. FP will not auto restart unless I open more heads, which in a real world fire scenario is exacrly what will happen This is designed under 2013 UFC 03-600-01. Thank You Sir. Byron ________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> on behalf of Mike Morey via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 10:38 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Mike Morey <mmo...@shambaugh.com> Subject: RE: Fire Pump Shutdown I've always understood it to be allowed even for a non-testing situation if approved. The 2019 edition clarified this somewhat by breaking out automated testing as essentially ok even without specific approval and then a separate line item for when approved by the AHJ. In places where the pump may not readily get shut off during an accidental start the 10 minute timer makes a lot of sense. Timer only starts when shutoff pressure is reached and start pressure isn't dropped below again for 10 minutes, and even then pump would immediately restart if pressure dropped again. I've always felt we were pretty conservative in how rarely it's utilized. Mike Morey CFPS 3229 . NICET S.E.T. 123677 Project Manager . Fire Protection Group Shambaugh & Son, LP an EMCOR Company 7614 Opportunity Drive . Fort Wayne, IN . 46825 direct 260.487.7824 / cell 260.417.0625 / fax 260.487.7991 email mmo...@shambaugh.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of BF Blake via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 2:27 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: BF Blake <bfbl...@hotmail.com> Subject: Fire Pump Shutdown BE ADVISED - This email originated outside EMCOR. Greetings Forum Members Do we believe it is the intent of NFPA 20 TC is for 10 minute automatic shut down (when enabled) of fire pumps to apply only during churn (e.g. dead head, closed loop, testing) conditions or to any condition to include sprinkler flow (e.g. 1/2" 5.6K ITC flow)? Is the intent to protect the fire pump from "burn out"? Is the intent to run pumps to failure (destruction) or is the intent, with 10 minute auto shut down, where permitted, to attempt to preserve the pump? 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