Scot,
Thank you for your thoughtful diatribe expressing a common sense viewpoint of societal norms and the proclivities of the federal government. That said, this is a fire protection (and predominately) fire sprinkler forum and as such, the content and submittals should be related to the point. While insightful, your political point of view is out of place, and I invite you to post such thoughts elsewhere, as they do not belong on the sprinkler forum. Thank you for the compliment and for your participation, which will continue to be welcomed, provided we can keep posts related to primary industry topics. Best regards, Bob *Bob Caputo, CFPS* *President* *American Fire Sprinkler Association* c: 760-908-7753 p: 214-349-5965 ext124 w: firesprinkler.org <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> *Our new address is 1410 East Renner Rd., Suite 150, Richardson, TX 75082* *Advanced Sprinkler Hydraulic Calculations* Take a deep dive into advanced hydraulic principles for standpipe systems, fire pump assemblies, and water storage tanks. Learn more and register for the May 3-5 class here <https://www.firesprinkler.org/programs/advanced-sprinkler-hydraulic-calculations-workshop/> . *From:* å... .... <eurekaig...@gmail.com> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2023 2:26 AM *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Need help with a sanity check - Estimate - Open records on safety professionals Funny that the American FTC, coming from the land that claims capitalism like few other nations have... doesn't have the gonads to openly talk about the cost of capital... But we -- the public safety professionals -- seem to not give the public taxpayers funding the FTC, enough open, honest, simple information about costs, or about other parameters of our profession to help the public consumer avoid the pitfalls of collusion. We know more about what basketball and curling competitors make and charge, than we do about professionals who steward public safety. We know more about the hourly wage of baseball players and boxers than we do about doctors and construction engineers. This gap is wrong, dead wrong. We should have open, honest, and simple access to each doctor's, engineer's, politician's hourly-rate or salary inventory of decisions, actions and outcomes (i.e. performance record) collusion or sub-contracts and professional dealings with colleauges, etc. How could collusion on an open forum be worse than the collusion that already happens in hushed voices at NFPA standards meetings or in corridors of SFPE conferences or fire safety industry trade shows? Collusion and corruption are simply different manifestations of entropy, and are impossible by the laws of Nature to prevent. I think debate and discussion of pricing on an open forum such as this, discourages collusion. Any one is able to offer a lower price here, in the open; that is anti-collusion, not collusion. Seems to me, that most times a law is passed to ban 'product zeta', the ban on 'product zeta' ends up creating a higher profit for those who find a way to continue to offer 'product zeta'. Examples: alcohol prohibition, medicine prices in Canada or Mexico versus USA, sanctioned oil... Maybe someone should start a forum where FTC allows open talk on prices and bids, 'cooperative' designs or sub-contracts with other colleagues hourly wages, accuracy of engineering design, effective reliability of engineering design, etc. # and type of failures per occupancy class Actually, this open, honest information would be a collusion, but a collusion against the professionals whom hide the salami on salary, non-competitive bid awards, insider tips, etc. We should know as much numerical data about doctors performing surgery on our bodies, or about engineers building bridges on our highways, as we know about the percentage of completed cross-pitch passes from any given left fullback. Mr. Caputo you do your job well. This is not an indictment of you, AFSA or anyone on this forum. It is a castigation of society in general, with a special foot to the crotch of the FTC, who would be better at preventing collusion by memorializing (not preventing) information access on professionals paid to provide public safety. The FTC could put each professional's actions, decisions, hourly rate, design outcomes, etc. onto a blockchain (where the intent is that anyone could access data about a public safety professional, but only change the data after agreement from 95+% peers in the blockchain). Recording decisions and actions is what schools do, so why would the decisions and actions made by highly paid professionals charged with stewarding public safety be any less important to know? More information prevents, not abets, collusion. When information that is relevant, is more available, this improves the efficiency and accuracy of safety delivered to the public. And of course, increasing the efficiency and reliability of safety delivered to the public, would include reducing collusion, as a matter of course.. Scot Deal Excelsior Risk & Fire Engineering gsm: +420 606 872 129 On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:11 PM Bob Caputo <bcap...@firesprinkler.org> wrote: As a gentle reminder, it is inappropriate to discuss pricing on any level or basis on this Forum. We could be subjected to an accusation of collusion by the Federal Trade Commission and no one wants to have that discussion. While this post didn’t quite touch the flame, it’s warm enough to warrant a warning. There can be no pricing discussions or anything close to it. Thank you all and I hope this forum will continue to be a valuable resource for our members! Best regards, Bob [image: Image removed by sender.] *Bob Caputo, CFPS* *President* *American Fire Sprinkler Association* c: 760-908-7753 p: 214-349-5965 ext124 w: firesprinkler.org [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> *Our new address is 1410 East Renner Rd., Suite 150, Richardson, TX 75082* *Advanced Sprinkler Hydraulic Calculations* Take a deep dive into advanced hydraulic principles for standpipe systems, fire pump assemblies, and water storage tanks. Learn more and register for the May 3-5 class here <https://www.firesprinkler.org/programs/advanced-sprinkler-hydraulic-calculations-workshop/> . *From:* Prahl, Craig <craig.pr...@jacobs.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 26, 2023 1:48 PM *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Need help with a sanity check - Estimate I have an in-house estimator who provided me an estimate of $2.77MM for a Pre-Engineered building, 350’x250’, open production area, no ceilings. 35,000 sf area with 45 ft high roof, 52,500 sf 30 ft high roof. Three wet pipe systems. Open racks with 2-level of in-rack sprinklers, approx. 1400 linear ft of racking. Dedicated wet pipe system. Separate Utility bldg., 2400 sq. ft, wet system Truck loading/unloading canopy 1500 sq. ft. Deluge system Office area 100’x260’, wet pipe system. LH. No fire pump, no water tank. Tying into municipal water supply. UG is not included in this scope, it’s by others. This seems a bit high to me . All I’m looking for is an off-the-cuff, back-of-the-napkin, ball park number or tell me he’s spot on. If you wish, you can reply via my email address shown below. Thanks, Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS ------------------------------ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. 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