And John with the forward flow requirements being enforced by more and more 
jurisdictions then this full flow capability becomes essential.


Anthony Carrizosa
Project Manager | Fire Protection
7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032
Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office Dir: 253-341-4593
[cid:image001.jpg@01D9D5A3.B83755C0]
https://archerconstruction.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1>


From: John Denhardt <jdenha...@firesprinkler.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 9:19 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Roof Drain / Sprinkler Drain

My only comment - wherever you take a drain discharge, if a main drain test 
needs to occur, MAKE SURE THE MAIN DRAIN VALVE CAN BE OPENED FULLY AND ALLOWED 
TO DISCHARGE AT FULL FLOW FOR SEVERAL MINUTES.  A main drain test needs to be 
completed as required by NFPA 25.

NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS REQUIREMENT

The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation 
in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is 
provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this 
opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official 
position of the AFSA, and/or NFPA or its technical committees.AFSA cannot 
provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion should 
therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such.

Thanks,
John

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1]
John August Denhardt, PE
Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services
American Fire Sprinkler Association
m: p:
301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w:
firesprinkler.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffiresprinkler.org%2f&c=E,1,L7UzD2wBUntMeESHnZwoqM429GQD9wf1V2jvpXSjkgYjbdqqkcwZKCYa7k87EKgDmMkuFNf-tk7G5bBN7adPKeXv5Rg7CaaDkIDtR9MKDqvguKTibOE,&typo=1>
Experience the Magic of AFSA42!

Click 
here<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.firesprinkler.org%2fregister-for-afsa42&c=E,1,eiOz2BHwjHxbFtXwC0Ocry-rh5avx4xiQ8aYuHjVI0iJZ7lFscGNpFd4Fn7VzBFxHEheSDvaMcewINWdTtpyUG-oV-RyNvv2g6DLwxh5vA,,&typo=1>
 to view the schedule and register for AFSA42: Convention, Exhibition, and 
Apprentice Competition at the Signia by Hilton Orlando Bonnet Creek September 
6-9, 2023.


On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 12:14 PM Steve Leyton 
<st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
Not so fast everyone.

The answer to this question depends entirely on your location and the 
state/local rules that may apply to managing storm water runoff and what is 
allowed to enter the watershed via the storm drain system.   It’s easy poke fun 
at CA because of our sometimes-suffocating regulatory environment, but it is 
now illegal to direct sprinkler water into the storm system.  In fact, in most 
incorporated cities and counties, you cannot dump onto hardscape if water could 
run to the storm system.  And CA is NOT the only state in the West with such 
restrictions – anywhere that water can run into the ocean, a bay or lake or 
river, we are now seeing these restrictions.

Personally, I understand that if sprinkler water can enter a watershed, it will 
contaminate it and I accept these regulations as a necessary pain-in-the-ass.   
 The challenge is not how to resolve new builds, it’s to deal with 
T.I./expansion projects and ITM throughout the built environment where old 
school test/drain discharge is open to the public way.   There are bio filters 
(sand/oil) for the storm system that may be acceptable to enable discharge, but 
the project civil or owner has to get the private storm system approved if 
using that approach and water cannot enter the public system.  Civil engineers 
and landscape architects engage bio-swales and detention features, and we 
sometimes coordinate with various means to get discharge to percolate into 
softscapes on site.

But the best and most basic approach is to coordinate with the plumbing 
engineer and arrange for a hub drain (4” self-priming trap, 4”-->6” concentric 
increaser to a rubber-booted hub) to be roughed into the riser room.   This 
enables adequate capacity for main drain and inspector’s tests, vents the drain 
per code and controls stinky smells.   In your basement application, we would 
assume that there’s a sewer sump with an ejector, so take it to a hub drain in 
the basement or directly to the sump if you can.   If you’re draining through a 
hose valve, you can obviously drop a hose to the sump.   If one’s not being 
provided, ask for it and point out the challenge of ITM to ownership if the 
building’s not so equipped.

My 4¢,
Steve L.

From: Brian Harris <bhar...@bvssystemsinc.com<mailto:bhar...@bvssystemsinc.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 6:43 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Roof Drain / Sprinkler Drain

Skyler-
Thank you, will do.

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
bvssytemsinc.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbvssystemsinc.com%2f&c=E,1,8PMFxnDFEYdpPYb1b8qKB8TBEDFlgsy8vMkWiSNHS_flt7LyfUPsROR1m3CKNJjjgk6YonxJEgmOlAL1lzQLV_k-HhcH8k1o-XAvL8FMd7y5j31uoDOZSSZg&typo=1>


From: Skyler Bilbo <sbi...@wenteplumbing.com<mailto:sbi...@wenteplumbing.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 9:32 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Roof Drain / Sprinkler Drain

In most cases/places, the sprinkler water is considered gray water, and it 
would be OK to discharge a sprinkler drain to a storm sewer (this is most 
likely where it would end up if you have ever piped a sprinkler drain out an 
exterior wall). This is not OK everywhere, so for your specific project, it 
would be best to ask the AHJ and the plumber (and possibly the plumbing 
inspector) on the project if it is OK.

-Skyler

On Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:25 AM Brett Peters 
<br...@proudline.ca<mailto:br...@proudline.ca>> wrote:
I think that would depend on the municipality, most do not want the sprinkler 
water going directly into the storm drains, drained to exterior or into a waste 
drain


Thanks

Brett Peters
General Manager Installation & Design
Proudline Fire Protection Services Ltd.
br...@proudline.ca<mailto:br...@proudline.ca>
780 490 7602 office ext 202
780 490 7605 fax
780 777 0568 cell
780 718 2676 24h
Visit us at 
www.proudline.ca<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.proudline.ca%2f&c=E,1,FYuq3wA-j0OgI2oO61LW9r98f8FqCoJYEuvhgXxmAEISMDlYk5egq_h0ItthZOy_F4NqDQZUTxpdLGAtJ6UsQoPi3I5djLo-9KBrBmenLQ,,&typo=1>

Proudline now offers ULc listed monitoring services, please contact 
a...@proudline.ca<mailto:a...@proudline.ca> for more information



[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4wRo6r0eNDUWx8YR-4XJLvwcnouQn_xEZH_HIb4jDbepWtON2RWC-ekzvZHKtncFOQqPcNQfzM&c=E,1,Y4KnUnniJcNGIylZamAuX0Mv2206YeuJ_6g5CrMFrnnkbtzVP4ldMSjJ7qX9gp21BCJ5CSxI5b5LGOeOtLBTlIk67eYvsrguktBrwYUGUana52PUWFgR1cW57vMY&typo=1]
 
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4yJVI287VPLDWiW9maE2Np3U4CdszCY9deeyaLl8DM90wlBd7pnuOZV9U-swv-7gWN_24py6vo&c=E,1,4vOMlzA5VmaOMenNVRTMHHfi-9h7lbOGvuQVUabqaaSxGOHme8eybSD61m6f65pHhJSbIj19G6KW3BuqwcBw3BOCRExN59lNOeX5o4JXyeLJ1VyxMFM,&typo=1]
  
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4wlGmqj6Ja06DKOIMLPvEE8B2W8fT_TPPA3w-4JfqygLq9n77ECSni09YLIVICXJYzWo4Z0PjU&c=E,1,xq6YZVErQXwdQsI3U2hd6Hpo8khDYpuYzOL8zlkaLZXXEiVJSB52MW5dUsl-JSljGgAFWjZFX4_FqsZTd0iCDcWCla8V0nSdefhysJZebvz8ZwMyBkSVfFcQew,,&typo=1]
  
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4zEgPbs279KVEfWIpIiWNLel8zAlcloW9dNXGLTaE1cMz88CRkmg17fju5BQB_iIzhWK20DUL8&c=E,1,EnpojxxGNut2q9GlEgVs5jLVprTxnwjNGhZrcN_nnh9eII7tS5nSiCDxgDb-qJo_7GilAL4YLNDd9mqsIDeExB6QzYd0Hz9nss1PTarh13FJtgd9P08E4Jn97D9Z&typo=1]
  
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4z7J0kfmSGA8jKvDK0pTqW3KQlc5v-tYcWosmy5W7pdok462Gzu_9Ft7UK9oJUWDT1DzhQ4hUU&c=E,1,coD5OCsdRKXsGq0giBchWpumJV8BD7sQ7TR8cmw8j7dFAY2MqgE7uUPoRKslKBXEtkk251lr4bRvsoOqVm1iUBybU7SUOyQH9w9gjUaqJmjiOtkCrGqn&typo=1]
  
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4wTVHoTZxkppBoWSCTFnGLgGTq0apivi8sNvWPyBsloO0mmy8ZYu4Ax854jo7ihTMFyeYeOceg&c=E,1,8miSKtq8aXvzO6KWCKN_M40p0DbjlMGGl4lm-yL_k51eAJMdBh8EXSDKiSSE3Rwziaqbv9Fgj3_0lrYNGpliL0pK0Y7hTdRCKU8rkWnB6MBQiA,,&typo=1]
  
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4xwBWEOX5v9mpza4Jqf9lOKSwThBNvyIO7Rl-Cxo7NRiV7p70C0f1biwbh44Y-iIA5GcmD1MCo&c=E,1,GhHcclqm9NV41wSMHOIi3fwcm_q0astxv5A_KwQh9WCbk-0-BNGvYLCNyVDZVu8nF9pmuovBwFtcMAmz--_AUVJ-TTMs0tQAQP0h56Av0onGxs6VO41sxEg,&typo=1]
  
[https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fci3.googleusercontent.com%2fmail-sig%2fAIorK4yPfO1HdtbQPYiKlYE38cwc88ABhX7xN1nh0fCK5LjFXjKplJggk3Xn6_XypmtMWyADKR7ZRGk&c=E,1,GLZHkpmbWES8Q8vCFk42yFDM4hzADVSo_lbob2JnW_h5sMrMUmgz_QYVER1VMvQnpRk2dXpOOpYHy0XBVfxeEGhqji1wPaMxWfxD0j9jnul8ZvWOMci3&typo=1]


On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 6:53 AM Brian Harris 
<bhar...@bvssystemsinc.com<mailto:bhar...@bvssystemsinc.com>> wrote:
We have a project with standpipes and a basement. All floors above the basement 
drain through the Standpipe drain and empty at grade. We usually then drain the 
remaining (basement) section of standpipe through the bottom hose valve. The GC 
is asking if we can instead drain that last section by tying into the roof 
drain in the same stairwell that runs outside below grade. Is this a no-no?

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
bvssystemsinc.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbvssystemsinc.com%2f&c=E,1,Qfpa7Z13Zok4rg7c6W9OUwmeAxw8pd3IrRkawAoBaKbiuJyZjjxKjuzBelGHs1iaDizm1uQSKTgPkRVjoQE89xpUaabVIAB_WBOBTnRd_vOGQuZtQMHFrr48owE2&typo=1>
Phone: 704.896.9989
Fax: 704.896.1935



_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2flist%2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,XIKxPbobx-1CX2NpE6JCypm1JVdTpCmHPX0ZN0dnbpAMjLYREYwOWaPSvJaizuv0UnppB4lSw3Z-iJKP3XjUwllg4ZpVzJJdZLMDxwp2StQ,&typo=1>
To unsubscribe send an email to 
sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org>

_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2flist%2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,HDC2jNjtX0jqf-psYrTl9kUug9tuszVdbDdI5c2E4phFLoJoCFnHwg5u4wIGfokkRas2ab1_PjTQYp1PlxDUSWbc_ZwzZ_pbckXMZc-l2io_CeoAngypazg-4Q,,&typo=1>
To unsubscribe send an email to 
sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org>

_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2flist%2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,6mS-U9gDyWNV_SNU1VJzxTv5hz-rZt4qc00MFIcRGz4a2-DEHQmlrtIz7fIM8iPjlqXJtG7gGimfvnwftqiIg9huDrymf-R1X_gwEUcvlYkcFdk,&typo=1>
To unsubscribe send an email to 
sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org>
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org

Reply via email to