Interesting. Most FD's understand that it's way better to BYOP. Okay, so your building FDC is going to connect downstream of the fire pump, and the SP system will be supplied by the FDC and pump in question. If it was me, I would branch off of the fire service lateral that's serving the building after the (assumed) backflow and before the building service entry, then pipe to the dock with its own PIV/FDC and "riser". The specifics of the how and where for those components notwithstanding...
The choice of manual/wet or automatic is solely at the discretion of the responding FD, so if they love pumps so much that they'll pump a mid-rise, maybe they'll want to pump the dock. But if they prefer a manual (and we heard from a LOT of fire departments that have waterfront operations in the task group we formed to create Chapter 13 in the 2019), then you obviously don't want to take the water supply from the building standpipe system. We queried fire service about whether there was a need for Class 2 hose boxes on marina docks, which was the legacy solution. We also asked about Class 1 and the overwhelming preference was a manual Class 1 system. The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard. Steve From: John Irwin <jir...@solomonplumbing.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 1:34 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Local requirement. John Irwin Florida Fire Sprinkler Division Solomon Plumbing From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 4:30 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Why are the standpipe systems automatic? From: John Irwin <jir...@solomonplumbing.net<mailto:jir...@solomonplumbing.net>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 1:28 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe While the building is a midrise, the stand pipe systems are automatic. John Irwin via mobile device. Fire Sprinkler Division Solomon Plumbing 727-282-9243 Typed on tiny keys just for you. Please forgive spelling errors, typographical transgressions, and grammatical gaffs. ________________________________ From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 4:24:22 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Not coming out of, but sharing the water supply with the building. Simplistically, if your building standpipe system is manual, then you can place your FDC on the service lateral and then split to separate building and dock systems. Again, maybe the local AHJ will buy it coming off the building system, but if it's pumped for whatever reason, I'm a hard no on the 1,000 gpm water supply. Boat fires are different and so are response strategies, including joint response with a fire boat. If they think they may need 1,000, my first pass would be manual/manual and design the water supply so they can pump it. This and the preceding emails on this thread represent my personal opinion only and are not intended to represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 technical committee. Steve L. From: John Irwin <jir...@solomonplumbing.net<mailto:jir...@solomonplumbing.net>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 1:18 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Ok understood. I mean that's an argument for me doing what I want to do with the stand pipe system. John Irwin Florida Fire Sprinkler Division Solomon Plumbing From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 4:16 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe 2023 Florida Building Code, 8th Edition: [F] 905.8 Dry standpipes. Dry standpipes shall not be installed. Exception: Where subject to freezing and in accordance with NFPA 14. From: John Irwin <jir...@solomonplumbing.net<mailto:jir...@solomonplumbing.net>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 1:10 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Probably not doing that. =) Florida Building Code and Florida Fire Prevention Code are as far as I dig. John Irwin Florida Fire Sprinkler Division Solomon Plumbing From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 4:08 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Evuhbody needa reeda IBC ยง905.8. From: Fpdcdesign <fpdcdes...@gmail.com<mailto:fpdcdes...@gmail.com>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 1:01 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Dock System / Stand pipe Far am I to challenge Mr Layton on a standpipe question. However, my first reaction was why not. Pumps and underground are shared between buildings, why not between a building and a marina? Connected to a 1000 gpm pump, it would most likely end up automatic wet instead of manual dry. This opinion is based only on information previously received. There may be other circumstances that could make the preferred outcome different. Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Jul 30, 2024 at 3:06 PM, <John Irwin<mailto:jir...@solomonplumbing.net>> wrote: I have a situation I have not come across before. New construction of an 8 story hotel at the marina. Plans also call for a manual dry dock hose system. This will require, one, maybe two hose valves. The dock is located on the side of the hotel opposite the street. Civil plans call for an underground run from the front of the hotel, all the way around the property, along the sea wall, to the dock. I have a stair well, with a stand pipe in it, about 20 ft from where the dock hose valves would need to be. Can I delete the manual dry hose and feed from the hotel stand pipe system? Or even directly from the fire pump would be preferable to all the underground work. Can I change the FDC sign on the front of the hotel to include the dock hose valves? "Hotel & Dock FDC" My pump is already 1000GPM. Would adding these hose valves effectively make them part of the stand pipe system? Is there any reason in NFPA 13 or 14 that I can't extend my stand pipe system out horizontally? John Irwin Florida Fire Sprinkler Division Solomon Plumbing www.solomonplumbing.net Cell: 727-282-9243 Office: 248-486-1600 (Corporate) "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org>
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