I’d ask why they want PIV. Off building PIV. I’ve been told ‘No’ by Operations to turning off a series of wall mounted valves. My argument was they were at corner panel of tilt-up building. That building, part of a tar paper factory was busy going down wind, and four or five 8” riser were broke off and flowing. Losing ability to shut off water was affecting our ability to get water from hydrants. This affected ability to save other structures. Access to normal street valves or valves in a pit is tough when street is flooded. Eventually we brought water department inside fire ops area. Of course they walk straight to within about 3’ of street valve cover, and find it in about 30 seconds. About four or five industrial tilt-ups burned.
Story 2. I spent probably ten years trying to get my water department to allow DDCVA’s to be located in the building instead of a vault. Turns out buildings have roofs to keep them dry. Vaults in Puget Sound get wet. One of half a dozen keys to the whole endeavor, besides persistence, was a PIV at the easement line. Actually downstream flange at the easement line. The WD wanted to have clear ability to differentiate whose financial problem any future leak was. You need to ask. Best. Bruce V. > On 10/20/2025 12:24 PM PDT Jeff Brickell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > In some jurisdictions around my area, the fire department wants a quick means > of shutting the water off that does not involve getting in a vault or trying > to locate the riser room on the interior of a building. If there is access > to the riser room from the exterior, a Knox Box with a key to the room is > sufficient. If the riser room is only accessed from the interior of the > building, they require either a PIV or WIV. > > > > > > > > Jeff Brickell, CET > > Senior Estimator/Designer > > BIM Coordinator > > NICET III CERTIFIED > > CERT #147245 > > > > OREGON CERTIFIED COBID FIRM #13272 > > (EMERGING SMALL BUSINESS) > > > > TRIAD FIRE PROTECTION > > OREGON . WASHINGTON . ARIZONA > > > > OFFICE 503.856.6333 tel:503.856.6333 > > CELL 602.550.4292 tel:602.550.4292 > > FAX 866.766.8862 tel:866.766.8862 > > > > From: John Denhardt <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2025 11:39 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: PIV > > > > The number one cause for a sprinkler system failure is a closed control > valve. > > > > Let’s add more control valves 🥹. Makes no sense to me to add additional > control valves. > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > John August Denhardt, P.E > > > Vice President Engineering and Technical Services > > American Fire Sprinkler Association > > 301-343-1457 tel:301-343-1457 > > > > Are you a member with a technical question? > > Don't forget one of the most valuable resources that AFSA provides is > Technical Reviews by our Technical Services Department. It’s like having an > FPE on your staff. Visit www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview > https://www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview to submit a question today! > (Member login required.) > > > On Oct 20, 2025, at 11:36, Parsley Consulting <[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > Tim, > > Understood, however that prompts my question. > > Why do you need a PIV? Doesn't the backflow serve as a control valve? > > It's already difficult enough by having two control valves on a system, on > opposite ends of the backflow, why do you need to add a third control valve > (PIV)? > > Doesn't that increase the opportunity for the system to be out of service, > particularly if the monitoring (tamper switches, locks, etc) were compromised? > > sincerely, > > Ken Wagoner, SET > Parsley Consulting > 3002 Younger Drive > Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-3909 > Phone: (760) 745-6181 tel:(760)745-6181 > Visit the website > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/8OBhCA8EJ5inGNwNc8h1uGk-LF?domain=linkprotect.cudasvc.com > > > > On 10/20/2025 11:45 AM, Tim Easter wrote: > > > > > Currently only piv. Want to remove piv and just install main control valve > > at riser. Piv didn't close all the way. Been underground a long time. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2025, 12:36 PM Parsley Consulting <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > I won't copy what Craig and Tom have said, only to offer my own thoughts. > > > > > > If the backflow serves only one sprinkler system, the OS&Y valves there > > > function as a system control valve. Indeed §16.9.3.3.5 in the '22 and > > > '25 editions of -13 specifically permits them to serve as a control valve > > > to a sprinkler system provided they are listed for fire protection. And > > > the supervision requirements of §16.9.3.3 would apply as well. > > > > > > Why are you adding a PIV, and installing a control valve at risers? Is > > > there more than one system? > > > > > > sincerely, > > > > > > Ken Wagoner, SET > > > Parsley Consulting > > > 3002 Younger Drive > > > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/zT_wCB1GK5iMz7w7HNi3u22GjC?domain=google.com > > > Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-3909 > > > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/zT_wCB1GK5iMz7w7HNi3u22GjC?domain=google.com > > > Phone: (760) 745-6181 tel:(760)745-6181 > > > Visit the website > > > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/8OBhCA8EJ5inGNwNc8h1uGk-LF?domain=linkprotect.cudasvc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/2025 10:54 AM, [email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > We are trying to remove PIVs, and install a main control valves at > > > > risers. AHJ is saying we must have a PIV. Also, we have BFPs before the > > > > PIVs. Can anyone help me find in NFPA 13 or 24 the section about PIVs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > > > > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/muS-Czqg2GcxOMkMu4fAu9RCwT?domain=lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > > [email protected] > > > > mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/muS-Czqg2GcxOMkMu4fAu9RCwT?domain=lists.firesprinkler.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > [email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/muS-Czqg2GcxOMkMu4fAu9RCwT?domain=lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > [email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://url.usb.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/muS-Czqg2GcxOMkMu4fAu9RCwT?domain=lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > mailto:[email protected] > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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