there is... u do not want to know if A points B or B points A, u want 
to know if A and B are related in whatever aspect. That is, A and B 
are members of some set X denoting that aspect. i.e. moving the 
belonginess out of A and B alltogether.
but this isn't going to make your DB simpler... quite the opposite.

On Friday 05 December 2008 10:40:16 Eric Ongerth wrote:
> Thanks for the ideas.  I thought of all of the above.  The one I've
> been using is the accessor which unions together the necessary
> things.  My question came up when I wondered if there was some even
> more fundamental way to handle these forwards-backwards cases.  I'm
> glad to know I'm already doing all I can.
>
> On Dec 2, 3:32 pm, Michael Bayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:54 PM, Eric Ongerth wrote:
> > > Now when I want to find out whether a Foo has a relation to
> > > another Foo, I have to check whether there exists any row in
> > > foo_relations that has the given Foo as either as "this" OR
> > > "that".  Also, what if I need backrefs on the foo_relations
> > > mapper?  The backref from 'this' and the backref from 'that'
> > > would both point to something called a foo, but they would have
> > > to be given separate labels in order ot not be conflicting
> > > property names -- when really, I would not want to know if a
> > > foo was the 'that' or the 'this' of some foo relation.
> > >
> > > So ideally in a case like this, I could set an option that says
> > > the m:m relation is bidirectional, and that the backrefs for
> > > both foreign keys in the m:m table should really point to the
> > > same place (or at least be unioned together).
> > >
> > > I have a feeling that would violate some part of the RDBMS
> > > standards, and I'm perfectly willing to go without or work
> > > around.  This is more of a philosophical point for learning's
> > > sake -- what do other people do in such cases?
> >
> > you can.... store two rows in the association table, one for each
> >   direction.   or provide an accessor which just unions together
> > the forwards and backwards references between Foo objects.  or
> > make a readonly relation() that does the appropriate "OR" logic.
> >   I might even try combining both of those techniques somehow.
>
> 


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