A few weeks ago at Pine Creek we had our Railroaders Weekend/Open House and I set up some track for Ruby to run on in front of our machine shop. Actually used the tender deck for our 1914 Porter which was an ideal height.
I was not so much concerned about boiler safety as I was about Ruby spitting hot water out the stack. We carried 2000 passengers that weekend and I'd guess half took the shop tour with many taking the time to check out Ruby pulling a seven car mixed train (with power to spare!). Lots and lots of kids. Before starting Ruby up, I'd have to clear the kids back a few feet to keep the hot water and oil spray off of them. At Diamond Head and other public runs, is there a concern about the hot water tossed from the stack getting on kids? In other words, its not so much a boiler failure (very rare) that is a concern to me but rather the normal water tossing nature of a steamer when its cold and first moving out (very common). Seems like the operator has to be very aware of who is near him/her before starting out. BTW, if anyone is interested I can email a picture of Ruby running that weekend. Off hand I forget how many laps it ran, but it was two solid days, 11Am to 5PM with time off only for fuel and water. The train was three LGB log cars (very nice cars too), two LGB 4 wheel flats with load, Bachman Ely-Thomas caboose, an 8 wheel coach of unknown make, and a LGB 8 wheel caboose. Interestingly, the LGB caboose had coupler problems and was not used much. The log cars were jewels and I would recommend them highly. The true link and pin works nicely and the long link I used between the first car and the engine gave me plenty of room for my big hands to reach in quickly and control the throttle on the fly. Seemed like the heavier the load the better the control was of the locomotive. It was a very short track and speed was critical. Oh well, enough rambling. I'll have a pressure gauge for next year for sure! And a bigger track. J.R. www.njmt.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Re: Boilers, Burners etc. > I've been following this thread, and I'd like to put my two cents in. I've worked with full sized stationary steam engines, and thought I do not have my operator's license as yet, I'm planning to take the test some time in the not too distant future. > First the fusible plugs primary job is not to extinguish the fire, but to notify the operator that a problem exist, and when it melts you'll know it. When the fusible plug melts, the first responsibility of the operator is to extinguish the fire. > To understand the dangers, one must first understand the why they occur. Two things to know about water and steam. For every on pound of pressure in the system, the temperature required to create steam rises one degree Fahrenheit. At just forty psi the temperature of the water and steam is well over 250 degree, and at 100 psi, its over 312 degree. The second thing to know is that one cubic inch of water will produce over 1400 cubic inches of steam. > With this in mind, when water hits a dry heated crown plate, and instantly turns to steam, the pressure in the boiler raises drastically, the crown plate which is already too hot, is usually the first failed component, forcing the steam downward, as the failure occurs, pressure in the boiler drops drastically, as the pressure drops, the temperature required to turn water to steam decreases, causing the water in the boiler to turn to steam, again 1 cubic inch of water, produces over 1400 cubic inches of steam, and the boiler is history, and no longer setting where it was, this is the primary cause of steam explosions. The biggest danger with a boiler is not the steam in it but the water within. For this reason the fusible plug needs to be sized for the boiler, so as to allow steam to escape but to fast as to greatly effect the pressure within. > To me this is the reason not to use soft solder, once it starts to soften and gives a little the drop of pressure coupled with the resulting increase in the amount of steam can cause an explosion even at a lower pressure. > For this reason I believe water level is a much more import than pressure, assuming a well working relief valve. Don't get me wrong, pressure is important, and I don't think I'd want to run with a pressure gauge, but watching the sight gauge is much more import than watching the pressure gauge. > > Ray Baughman > > > > From: Harry Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 2003/10/06 Mon PM 12:20:44 EDT > > To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: Boilers, Burners etc. > > > > At 05:57 PM 10/5/03 -0400, you wrote: > > >On the other hand, a well designed silver soldered boiler will build up a > > >very high pressure (probably more than 10 times operating pressure). > > > > In order for a theory to hold water all conditions, components, and > > influences on a system must be considered in proper proportion. I agree > > the above scenario could happen, in fact possibly as much as 14 x WP, if > > there was a constant and unlimited source of heat, but what's being ignored > > is that this condition could not occur with a burner the size of a fat > > pencil. There are simply not enough BTUs available to the system. If I > > were to apply a 1" oxy/acetylene rose tip (150,000+BTU/min) to a Ga1 boiler > > boiler of course I should expect trouble, but in actual typical operation > > that's not going to occur. The reason for building silver soldered boilers > > the way they have been, and should continue to be, is so that even a worst > > case scenario, where the boiler is dry and the burner is still on, a rather > > large margin of safety remains. I fail to see what some people in the Ga1 > > live steam hobby find so difficult and/or objectionable about that. > > > > >When this eventually leads to failure, the steam/water escapes much > > >more violently with parts being torn off and hurling through the air. > > > > Unsubstantiated rhetoric like this can do a great deal of harm if read > > and repeated by or to the wrong person. Rather than to conjur up disasters > > based upon incomplete and unrealistic physical scenarios, or constructing > > far-fetched justifications for doing it on the quick and cheap or > > indictments of doing it properly, I think the hobby would be much better > > served if that same energy were used to learn and promote good boiler > > building pratices. I continue to be amazed how many people still fail to > > undersand that there is a direct connection between certain time-proven > > boiler building practices and safety, meaning that if good practices are > > used there is no further need for discussions or conjecture about what > > might happen in the event of a boil-dry. We would, and do, know what would > > happen. As for the actual dangers, historically then overwhelming majority > > of steam and boiler-related injuries are from scalds and burns and it's no > > different for us. > > > > >The ultimate solution could be a well designed copper boiler with one or > > >two soft soldered melting plugs as "last chance safety valves". > > > > These are called "fusible plugs" and are being used by some folks in > > large scales but there is disagreement as to their advantages, if any, and > > whether they should be made mandatory. But Ga1 boilers are a different > > animal and it's my opinion that the problems of using a fusible plug in a > > typical Ga1 boiler outweigh any benefits. Ga1 boilers are a different > > animal because they are much less stable in operation than large scale > > boilers and fusible plugs rely to a great extent upon some degree of > > stability to do their job when it's called for and NOT do their job if it's > > not. By "stable" I mean operating temperatures and pressures are lower > > than larger scales but fluctuate much more widely than in larger scales, > > water levels fluctuate much more widely, and only a very small percentage > > of locomotives have the firebox configuration required for a fusible plug, > > most don't have a firebox in the usual sense at all. Fusible plugs rely > > upon plate temperature and water level to operate. Also most Ga1 locos > > have fires which can be extinguished instantly in the event of low water, > > which is one important job done by a fusible plug, but in the event of low > > water nothing of much danger happens to a properly built Ga1 boiler anyway. > > > > Regards, > > Harry > > > > > > > >
