Frank and all 

Biochar and phytoliths are probably the best amendments that can provide
carbon additions to the soil that aren't readily lost from tropical soils
(Both are much better than compost in that regard). It's really up to us to
find ways to do it practically and economically find ways to add these
stable forms of carbon to soils while bringing prosperity to farmers. It is
being done already with phytoliths in systems of wetland rice production and
sugarcane production where crop residues are decomposed in fields and not
burned. I have seen depleted red soils turn brownish black in about 5 years
in the Philippines through these methods. 

Grasses will produce in most tropical regions about double the annual
biomass productivity as trees for two reasons:
1) they use 1/2 as much water per tonne of biomass produced
2) they convert solar energy 40% more effciently than trees. 

Even productive C4 grasses in Engalnd are water restricted, and in certain
locations can deplete soils of moisture critically important for groundwater
recharge. Fast growing trees only make the water problem worse. 
See "review of the effects of energy crops on hydrology"
https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/1826/3368/1/Review%20of%20the%2
0effects%20of%20energy%20crops%20on%20hydrology-2001.pdf
Regarding Crispin's comments on previous warming periods in north america
there were two previous Xerothermic periods in North America where a prairie
pennisula of warm season grasses developed that  jutted into the lower Great
Lakes region right into southern Ontario.   

I don't think though we can count on growing grasses much above where we do
now. You will have a hard time convincing farmers to buy more northern land
when they can't make a living up there already. REAP-Canada is working on
more chilling tolerant warm season grasses to extend their northern range
but we don't expect major farming expansion to the north in Canada any time
soon 

Regards

Roger Samson
Executive Director
REAP-Canada
Centennial Centre CCB13
Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9
T: (514) 398-7743
F: (514) 398-7972
E: [email protected]
W: www.reap-canada.com 



 
  

 
-----Original Message-----
From: frank [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:02 PM
To: Roger Samson
Cc: [email protected]; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The Biochar myth..another stovers myth

Roger,

Thank you for the link about PhytOC as it is very informative. Always a nice
day when your thinking about something you think you know about goes off
into another direction.

http://www.scu.edu.au/schools/esm/palaeo/Parr%26Sullivan.pdf
Is another good paper I just Googled.

 I see them as 'chips of glass' all very clear with mostly smooth surfaces.
The light does not seem to be distorted when passing through the 45 to 35 um
size samples making me think they are made of a very pure silica material
without much carbon occluded within. This under 400X microscope fitted with
several toys to play with.  I digest the leaves in low temperature (~60 deg
C) nitric acid with some HCl as I find a higher temperature changes the
texture of their surface.Scroll down to sheet 6 (page 122 in the report) to
see the beautiful pictures I also find and look at. 

The methods they use for determining the carbon content in phytoliths seems
to be a some what if-y procedure, complex and close to detection limits. I
am not convinced, based on this report, we have something to get excited
about.  First concentrating by sieves for a narrow particle range (45 to 35
um) to eliminate silt-clays and sands. Then dilute acid wash to remove
carbonates and some organic matter.. Then estimating the concentration of
phytoliths using a microscope.  Then grind mortar and pestle. Strong acid
digest to remove all organic material not trapped within minerals. Will
leave many minerals in addition to phytoliths. 
Then Leco to determine the carbon content trapped within (if it works for
this) and calculate as if it all came from the percent phytoliths previously
estimated to be in the sample. I think that is how they must have done it
(at least that is how I would do it).


Another test to add to my long list !

Thanks much (eyes opened)

Frank








Roger Samson wrote:

>Frank
>
>Here is a really nice power point on phytoliths, grasses and soil 
>organic matter formation. I think this is brilliant work they are doing 
>in Australia on forming soils while growing energy crops and one of the 
>best practical means to produce loads of bioenergy from farmland while 
>creating great soils.
> http://www.plantstone.com.au/NSC%20Adelaide.pdf
>
>I simply don't think you can develop a more efficient system of 
>producing energy and soils in the same field.
>
>Its time to bury terra preta thinking and move on to a more efficient 
>ways of  using the land to produce energy while building soils.
>
>
>Roger
>-----Original Message-----
>From: frank [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:00 PM
>To: [email protected]; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>Cc: Roger Samson
>Subject: Re: [Stoves] The Biochar myth..another stovers myth
>
>Roger, Crispin, and Stovers,
>
>Just a few comments below:
>
><snip>
>
>  
>
>>"Saving of trees" happens when we "stop cutting the trees". 
>>Personally, I am very much against unreasonable cutting of trees.
>>
>>    
>>
>I do not necessarily agree with this. Farming biomass such as trees  
>for an energy source or carbon sequestering (and making money doing it) 
>will encourage more land being used for growing biomass. I think this 
>should be the goal. There are lots of land in the US along rivers, 
>creeks and in the mountains that are owned by lumber companies, open to 
>the public and protected from development. If we stopped using lumber 
>because we replaced it with a different product I wonder how long it 
>would take the loggers to realize it is not worth hanging on to the 
>land for another 50 years. Of course there need be control over 
>harvesting the present day biomass so the future is in mind.
>
><snip>
>
>  
>
>>>  Phytoliths in grasses are also an important carbon source for 
>>>forming soils.
>>>      
>>>
>Phytoliths are made of silica. They are isotropic meaning like glass, a 
>melt. Light bounces back and force to go straight through  and not  
>like quartz that is a crystal bending light in a fixed direction. They 
>look like fragments of glass under the scope with many amazing shapes. 
>I believe they from from soluble silica in water taken up into the 
>plant and solidify in the veins in places where there is branching 
>making the shapes. I have found them in roots, stock, leaves, flowers etc
all parts of the plant.
>
>I'm thinking they may cause more problems than a benefit for us as I 
>think they may form a hard to remove crust in places we don't want - 
>but I have yet to see a deposit in burners that is traced back to 
>phytoliths in the fuel.
>
>  
>
>>To my knowledge, carbon from biochar remains in the soil as carbon for 
>>much longer time - compared to carbon present in compost ( which gets 
>>converted into CO2 ).  Please correct me if I am wrong.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>
>>Rajan
>>
>>
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>>    
>>
>
>  
>

--
Frank Shields
Soil Control Lab
42 Hangar way
Watsonville, CA  95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
[email protected]
www.compostlab.com



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