Martin (and all):
> > But
> > you would be creaking and struggling if you did not piggy bank
> > Struts with J2EE features.
>
> Sorry, but I disagree completely. Whether or not Struts is an appropriate
> framework for any given project is completely independent of
> whether J2EE is
> or is not useful on that project.
I'd have to agree that the "to J2EE or not J2EE" question is often a
concern - I've been experimenting for some time with some techniques for
"deferring" that decision - e.g. allowing the ability to develop a project
"non-j2ee", then scale up to J2EE without any major re-writing.
What we've been doing is working on a way to deploy our "Controller" objects
(basically a collection of Action objects) as a session bean, and our
"DBObjects" (the object/relational mapping classes in Expresso) as entity
beans. You could then write your application using DBObjects and Controllers
and Struts, then deploy it in one case with only a servlet/jsp engine, and
in a more usage-intensive case in a full J2EE/clustered environment -
without recoding anything.
Given the capabilities to crank out the logic & UI that are so strong in
Struts, it seemed to me that it would be a perfect fit with this effort in
Expresso - that's one of the reasons we started in on integrating Struts in
the first place.
I'd appreciate any input/suggestions along these lines - as Pete pointed out
in a later email, we're not into re-inventing any wheels :-)
Regards,
Mike
Jcorporate Ltd.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Pilgrim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:51 AM
> Subject: RE: Any Struts User uses the Expresso Framework ?
>
>
> >
> > What I was trying to say was metaphorically speaking
> > comparing different boxing weight divisions.
> >
> > Raw JSP Servlets is featherweight
> >
> > Struts is a light weight flyweight
> >
> > Expresso is medium weight
> >
> > WebSphere / Oracle AS / JBoss / Enhydra / BEA are heavy weight
> > because they guarantee Enterprise level features. (You can usually
> > start with a raw standard "J2EE Server" then buy extras like
> > a personalisation server or portal server.)
> >
> > What I am saying is just because you are using Struts that you cant
> > write an enterprise level portal site like `support.dell.com'. But
> > you would be creaking and struggling if you did not piggy bank
> > Struts with J2EE features.
> >
> > The increase of scale goes up (ie the weight) with what the framework
> > can do. You can have high level of security, transaction integrity,
> > and business confidence if you choose one of J2EE app server with
> > the supplementary portal product.
> >
> > I like what I see of Struts so far. It is lightweight it is at the level
> > of "intermediate web application development". It is easy to get
> > into. It is popular , because are two Wrox books about it already
> > "Programming JSP 2nd Edition" and "Web App Prog 1st Edition" (I think?).
> > Best of all it is an MVC framework that works, although it is not
> > a mission critical piece of firmware.
> >
> > The last part is important because my boss, and his boss, and his boss
> > want to know that my development ideas are sound. I can see the
> > "Cost/Benefit" memo wafting over to me now.
> >
> > Any one want to add categories for a super heavy division?
> >
> > --
> > Peter Pilgrim | | ++44 (0)207-545-9923
> > .... \ \ ___ / / ... .
> > - ---- ( * ) --- --
> > _____________________________Cafe_Savannah,_San Antonio,Ibiza__
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------- Message
> History ----------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > From: Peter Pilgrim/DMGIT/DMG UK/DeuBa@DMG UK on 30/08/2001 16:53
> >
> > Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > cc:
> > Subject: RE: Any Struts User uses the Expresso Framework ?
> >
> >
> >
> > It depends what you need in the end. I would say
> >
> > "Struts is a lighter weight framework for developing web applications"
> >
> > "Expresso is a medium weight framework developing database-driven
> > web applications"
> >
> > If you do not need to scalability, distributable server,
> transaction safe,
> > robust, component architecture then you dont need
> > an J2EE application server.
> >
> > If you do need talk to database often, need a lot of grunt taken
> > out of writing your own object to relational table mapping. If
> > you also want dont want to write your own security. If you want
> > security already for your servlets, actions, then I'd say
> > Expresso is worth looking for.
> >
> > If you want to roll your security, user profile, and have simple
> > requirements for mapping objects to database table, can
> > live a basic form security, which roll on on your won,
> > then you can live with Struts.
> >
> > The problem web app is that the technology is moving
> > faster. First there were Servlet, then JSPs, and now
> > we have frameworks. It's the old trade off issues again
> > "time to market, time to customers" you decide. I know I dont
> > want to go back to pure Java Servlets again in hurry. That's my word.
> > --
> > Peter Pilgrim | | ++44 (0)207-545-9923
> > .... \ \ ___ / / ... .
> > - ---- ( * ) --- --
> > _____________________________Cafe_Savannah,_San Antonio,Ibiza__
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------- Message
> History ----------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > From: Robert Domachevsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 30/08/2001 11:39 AST
> >
> > Please respond to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > To: Peter Pilgrim/DMGIT/DMG UK/DeuBa@DMG UK
> > cc: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: Any Struts User uses the Expresso Framework ?
> >
> >
> > Hello Peter,
> >
> > I run a small shop which has been learning Expresso. I am concerned
> about
> > the duplication of functionality and resulting confusion
> between Expresso
> > 4.0 and Struts that Pete Carapetyan expressed in his message a few days
> > ago. Being a core contributer to Expresso do you have any
> comments. I am
> > starting to think that maybe I am better off just using Struts
> because of
> > the much larger interest in Struts vs Expresso.
> >
> > Bob Domachevsky
> > Ansco
> > 514.488.2020
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Pilgrim [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:07 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Any Struts User uses the Expresso Framework ?
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Now that I was __bloodied__ my fingers with raw jakarta Struts.
> > It 's looking quite good. I can feel the power.
> >
> > I wonder if any struts users are using the Expresso Framework 4.0 ea
> > which integrates the Struts Release 1.0. I am a Core contributer
> > with Expresso Framework so that why I am asking.
> >
> > http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/products/java.html
> > http://www.jcorporate.com/
> > --
> > Sun Certified Java 2 Programmer, Senior Systems Analyst,
> > OTC Derivatives IT, Deutsche Bank UK, 1-133 Houndsditch,
> > London, EC3A 7DX England
> >
> > Peter Pilgrim | | ++44 (0)207-545-9923
> > .... \ \ ___ / / ... .
> > - ---- ( * ) --- --
> > _____________________________Cafe_Savannah,_San Antonio,Ibiza__
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged
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> > are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
> > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
> > unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this
> > e-mail is strictly forbidden.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. If you
> are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
> please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. If you
> are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
> please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
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