I think youīre right. You should hear the conversations that we are having at work currently. We are in the middle of planing a new project and we are desperately trying to thnik of every possible thing that could go wrong! What if at some stage.... or have you thought of that.... !
Itīs driving me nuts because I really want it to be a success. The problem is though that even if we managed to think of every conceivable thing that could go wrong, we still have to take time and resources into account. I would love to spend 1 year planning the whole god damn thing (even then I couldnīt guarantee anything ;-) ) and then create the perfect project. Dream on. I must admit though that thanks to frameworks like struts, it becomes slightly easier because when you discuss the view you say.... yeah... struts.... and the controller... yeah struts... :-) . As you may have read in the thread that I started "Architecture advice", the service layer is driving me slightly nuts because if that isnīt right then...... it probably means trouble at some point. I hope Iīm not going to get into trouble for misusing this thread with dreams of a perfect project ;-)! I think youīre right though in saying that more than two formats may be needed eventually but thatīs another story.... (now anyway :-) ). Regards, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 11:14 PM Subject: Re: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, Michael Delamere wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:09:08 +0200 > > From: Michael Delamere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > > I agree entirely! There are many advantages of doing it the way you are. > > For us however it would be a big step and the time certainly isnīt there! > > > > Then again, currently there is no need for us to generate so many differnet > > types of views at present. > > WAP and WEB at the most.... > > > > You might be amused at one of my personal experiences that caused the > creatoin of Struts in the first place ... > > My job was to take a US-based application and make it available, on the > web, in Europe. Obviously, using American English wasn't going to cut it, > so we agreed to start in "just" four languages. Lacking anything like > Struts, I had to do it the old fashioned way -- four copies of each page > :-). Clumsy, but maintainable (if only barely). > > Maintainable, that is, until four became eight, then twelve, then ... and > now you know where tags like <bean:message> come from! :-) > > The moral of the story -- requirements always change over time, and they > always seem to get bigger rather than smaller. I wouldn't believe for a > minute that you will only need two formats now and forever more ... unless > they kill the project, which is a whole *different* problem :-). > > > Michael > > Craig > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jacob Hookom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:56 PM > > Subject: RE: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > > > > > Basically, it was a strict requirement of the system, and this MVC2 is > > > not implemented throughout the site in this manner, primarily for > > > reporting features. > > > > > > Do the math, either generate 40 jsps that spit out HTML, then another 40 > > > for WML, then another 40 for PDF (120 JSPs), or just have a single set > > > of 40 JSPs that output XML and then 3 stylesheets. It really depends on > > > the application and how strict the design templates are across your > > > pages. It may not be the best idea if for each XML JSP, you need to > > > generate a set of 3 stylesheets. > > > > > > In addition, we are using the code I wrote that uses XSLTC to compile > > > the XSL documents for faster transformation which makes this structure a > > > lot more viable. You might want to look at cocoon as a much larger > > > basis of this MVC2 pattern that has its own optimizations. > > > > > > Jacob Hookom > > > Comprehensive Computer Science > > > University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael Delamere [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:42 PM > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > > > > I really like your idea but how long did it take for everyone involved > > > to > > > adapt to this approach? > > > Surely it must take some time until efficiency comes back into the flow > > > of > > > things. Then again, I suppose when it does, everything becomes much > > > easier. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jacob Hookom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:33 PM > > > Subject: RE: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > > > > > > > > I am working on a big project for an insurance company and we are > > > doing > > > > everything in XML/XSLT. That way, the programmers can write JSP's or > > > > Servlets that just generate XML data and then depending on who's > > > making > > > > the request, it formats the page as WML, PDF, or HTML. That way the > > > > designers can just come up with stylesheets and the programmers just > > > > generate straight XML data. > > > > > > > > Jacob Hookom > > > > Comprehensive Computer Science > > > > University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michael Delamere [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 1:23 PM > > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > > > Subject: Re: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > > > > > > This may not be ideal but the way we do it is that the designers give > > > us > > > > their static content (html pages) and we feed it into the > > > jsps/velocity > > > > templates. > > > > > > > > That way we have more control over the dynamic elements in the webpage > > > > and > > > > they can play and fiddle with their html code as much as they like > > > :-). > > > > > > > > Regards Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Greg Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Struts Mail List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 8:10 PM > > > > Subject: uncoupling Web Design/Web Development > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > I have designed a web application that is dependant on a work flow, > > > > the > > > > user > > > > > interface is constructed by Web Designers and the server side is > > > done > > > > by > > > > Web > > > > > Developers. The web designers are now comfortable using the struts > > > > tags > > > > and > > > > > so on but they hate the fact that they have to follow the work flow > > > in > > > > order > > > > > to see changes on a specific page. They would like to be able to > > > view > > > > a > > > > page > > > > > directly, out side the work flow in order to perform the web design. > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure how I should facilitate this or if I should? > > > > > > > > > > Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > --- > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002 > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
