hi ranko, Assume you don't use struts. You start writing your first app for your requirements. Being an expert programmer, you have done with first one by wriitng lots of utility classes and base code.
Now you start with second. You will realize that the second app can use most of the functionality (except business logic) from the first app. NOW WHAT? You will dig out some code from first app that can be RE-USED in second app. That code can be called a framework(;et's call it RANKo framework ;-) and that's precisely what STRUTS intends to provide. Anyway, it's your viewpoint. Being a creator of one servlet/xml/xslt based framework myself(almost 18 months back), I know what is *common code* required for *most of the apps* and the efforts/time needed to create that framework. So, when starting with an app, i can find and USE as good framework as STRUTS, nothing like that. I don't say STRUTS is good enough, you may have diff requirements altogether so struts may not be the best choice for you. You write on your own but it's always good to look around for good frameworks and build ON TOP OF THEM. hope it clears. still i am trying to give answers to few of the individual points below. -navjot |> 1. solid code |so does the container i guess. true but container gives you world of choice. Struts gives you the base code for *common* requirements. So, you save time writing on *that common* code. |>2. validation framework |This is one of those changes that could be added by way of utility classes. |Have that Filter that autopopulates, check for correct types like Struts. Agreed. |>3. tile framework |You can use it without Struts Struts also does not enforce any fix presentation model. Could be xslt/velocity/jsp any. |> 4. auto-population framework |It should be easy to add a Filter that autopopulates a configured form (not |every time but as a standard). | |> 5. role based actions |I'm not sure what this is. Same as roles in servlet specs but checking is deferred per action. |>6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of |your application So does web.xml i guess. but here it is module based config. easy of maintenance ;-) |>7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding)complete with examples (many years of experience went |into this one). |Same thing as above. There are tutorials, examples, etc... | | |> 8. ease of use |If you think of a Servlet as an Action its kind of as easy. |Except for some |repetative tasks that I would include to complete the servlet spec (rather |than rewrite some of the container functionality to add those utils). | |-----Original Message----- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:42 AM |To: Struts Users Mailing List |Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet |container? | | | |Sandeep, |You mentioned role based actions in your list... which has caught my eye. |Can you please elaborate on this ? Or point me to some documentation ? | |thanks |-raj | | | | | "Sandeep Takhar" | <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Struts Users |Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | ahoo.com> cc: | Subject: Re: Struts MVC |framework similar to that of a servlet container? | 21/07/2003 06:08 | PM | Please respond to | "Struts Users | Mailing List" | | | | | | |there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the box. | |1. solid code |2. validation framework |3. tile framework |4. auto-population framework |5. role based actions |6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of |your application |7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) |complete with examples (many years of experience went |into this one). |8. ease of use | |I am missing about twice as many things from this list |I am sure... | |the servlet container is sun's way of making sure that |what you build is timeless (and works on their |servers...) | |Struts solves common problems across every typical |application. The servlet container does not solve |these typical problems. Struts is really a pattern... | |sandeep |--- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> |> Hi. I've been using Struts for a long time, and |> I've been very happy with |> the framework. However, a recent discussion on |> Sun's Java forums has left |> me wondering if Struts is necessary. It seems that |> the servlet container |> itself provides an MVC framework very similar to |> that of Struts. All that |> is missing is some utilities and standardization. I |> was wondering if there |> is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had any |> comments. |> |> |> In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the servlet |> container would be the |> equivalent of the ActionServlet. They both read |> their configuration files, |> examine the incoming URL, and then forward the |> request to the configured |> handler. In the case of the servlet container the |> handlers are Servlet |> classes, and in the case of Struts its the Action |> classes. Both the |> container and the ActionServlet will create an |> instance of their handler |> when its requested the first time. The Servlet's |> service method and the |> Action's execute method will call some domain logic |> and then select a view |> to display to the user. The Servlet can use |> RequestDispatchers to |> encapsulate information about the view, and the |> Action will use an |> ActionForward. Doesn't this sound very similar? |> |> It seems like we are adding a lot of complexity on |> top of the servlet spec |> in order to get some common tasks done for us. But |> that could probably be |> better done by the servlet container itself. For |> example, Struts |> automatically populates the form class the developer |> specifies for a |> particular Action. But Sun could provide a standard |> Filter implementation |> which does the same thing. You can declare handlers |> for your exceptions in |> the Struts configuration file, but you can also do |> it in the web.xml. If |> the functionality there is not quite the same, Sun |> can add a little to the |> spec and we would get it. |> |> My question is, is an application built in Struts |> really that much more |> maintainable than one built with servlets? Or if |> some common utilities |> provided by the Struts container were provided by |> the servlet container, |> would there be much difference? It seems that would |> even be simpler. Or |> not? |> |> ranko |> |> |> |--------------------------------------------------------------------- |> To unsubscribe, e-mail: |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> For additional commands, e-mail: |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> | | |__________________________________ |Do you Yahoo!? |SBC Yahoo! 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