So when is someone going to quote Bill Clinton and say "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is?" ;)
-----Original Message----- From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:55 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: very simple if/else question First, my comparison was about whether JSTL is faster than scriptlets and not Struts tags (I NEVER said Struts tags were faster than JSTL tags) so there you misquoted me (so we are even). Second, I meant your quote as a summary any moron would agree that is what you were, in summary, saying. I don't think you said "..." either but that is in the quote, so it wasn't exact. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Third, "something as silly as Java taglibs" is exactly my point. Basically, listen to you your own advice, I have seen people come on this forum and bash Struts (on this, the Struts forum) and you don't say a word. Yet, you basically tried to tell me not to post bad things about JSTL here even though we are all barraged with JSTL postings DAILY (basically, a censorship attempt, IMO). So who really cares more about the stupid tags, you or me just trying to, instead of censor, at least give another idea about, how they ARE just stupid tags, that aren't perfect. Fourth, I think you have me all wrong. I'm not mad or anything, I am just as irritated about your original censorship attempt and follow up JSTL hype up as you are of people basing JSTL. I just don't understand why you can't just say, here is how to do it in JSTL, without trying to hype it up on the Struts group. Just for the record here is what made me think of "elitist": http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user&m=105897443627729&w=2 I guess it is futile, because, why, people on the struts users group aren't elite enough to have a valid opinion? Only JCP members no what's best for developers. Anyway, I am done with this topic myself. -----Original Message----- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 10:44 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: very simple if/else question --- "Bailey, Shane C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Man (you already used Dude), I already stated that that doc is much > better > than the 50 other docs out there as far as JSTL reference. It appears > to be > a scan of a book in crappy PDF format. > > I just think it is very elitist for Dave to be constantly throwing > around > that JSTL is so great in so many aspects (e.g. faster for development > and > faster execution)as if it were fact when it is mostly opinion (or future > release fact). He never says, "IMO, JSTL is really good ..." it is > always > "JSTL IS the greatest ...". All because an alpha product (tomcat) > optimizes > some JSTL tags doesn't mean it is faster for execution (people take that > as > everywhere everytime). Any container vendor could make whatever they > want > optimized (if they really wanted to). There is absolutely nothing elitist about my views. It is a fact that the JSTL tags are faster than Struts tags in some containers. Resin already provides this optimization and Tomcat 5 will (at least in part) when it is released. It's very unlikely that a container would optimize non-standard, proprietary tags like Struts. It's also very likely that all major containers will provide optimized JSTL implementations because it is a Java standard. I don't need to preface every opinion I have with "IMO". It's fairly obvious what is an opinion statement and what is factual. I have never stated, "JSTL IS the greatest ..." as you seem to have quoted me as saying. I have also never said that the JSTL is perfect. I believe this conversation started with someone asking for opinions on which taglibs to use: Struts or JSTL. I stated my opinions and reasons for preferring the JSTL over the Struts counterparts. There is no need to make personal attacks over something as silly as Java taglibs so I suggest you lighten up. David > > If you read my previous posts you see how everything that David said > which > made JSTL so great could also be said for scriptlets and as I said, that > doesn't mean that scriptlets should be used. The only come back anyone > could say was that JSTL IS optimized (leaving out that it is only in > alpha > tomcat, partly). I agree that JSTL has many good parts but to act like > it > is perfect and so great and exaggerate its current capabilities is just > one > sided. > > It is like brainwashing. And that is sad. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Raeburn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:41 PM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: RE: very simple if/else question > > Dude, did you bother to look at the links David gave you? > Or ask on the correct mailing list? > Or even do some research yourself? > > Google. Fifth link down. JSTL reference. > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: August 13, 2003 2:50 PM > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' > > Subject: RE: very simple if/else question > > > > > > > > OK, let's vote. Who here thinks that Ace Graham is correct in saying > that > > these links are as easy to use as a reference (which is what I > requested > > since I understand the concept of tags in general and I only need a > quick > > reference): > > > > http://java.sun.com/webservices/docs/1.0/tutorial/doc/JSTL.html > > > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&fi > > eld-keywor > > ds=jstl&search-type=ss&bq=1/002-7447468-3651265 > > > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=jstl&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > > > > > VS. > > > > > > http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/userGuide/struts-logic.html > > > > > > I am not talking about the tags themselves right now as to which > > better but > > as to which links, the set above or the last one, is better in a > reference > > situation. Get your stop watches out and see how fast you can know > the > > attributes for any given Struts tags vs. any given JSTL. Ready go. > > > > I understand there is documentation out there for JSTL that is not the > > point. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:29 PM > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > Subject: RE: very simple if/else question > > > > --- "Bailey, Shane C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why isn't there a page for JSTL reference that is as nice and easy > to > > > use > > > as: > > > > > > http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/userGuide/struts-logic.html ??? > > > > > > You would be much closer to substantiating your claim of JSTL being > > > faster > > > to develop with if such a page existed, Ace. > > > > http://java.sun.com/webservices/docs/1.0/tutorial/doc/JSTL.html > > > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&fi > > eld-keywor > > ds=jstl&search-type=ss&bq=1/002-7447468-3651265 > > > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=jstl&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 12:41 PM > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > > Subject: RE: very simple if/else question > > > > > > --- "Slattery, Tim - BLS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > <c:choose> > > > > > <c:when test="${Fund.marketStatus != Kapaly}"> > > > > > > > > What are these <c: ...> tags? What do I have to have installed in > > > order > > > > to > > > > use them? > > > > > > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/jstl/index.html > > > > > > http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/standard-doc/intro.html > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! 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