On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Christoph Derndorfer > <christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito < > gerald.ard...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> I wanted to share that we have faced the same criticisms in our school > >> regarding the XOs. For the last four years, the teachers and students > have > >> complained that the devices do not connect well or reliably to our > wireless > >> network. > >> > >> Obviously, in our case, we have a wireless network and essentially > >> continuous access to the internet. But, what I have had to fight > against is > >> that this is the most basic use of any computing device. > >> > >> The only way I have been able to stem this tide is to come up with > >> projects and programs that made use of the XOs as standalone or mesh > >> networked devices. For example, we have done a lot with Memorize and > Etoys > >> and Scratch (and beginning to work with TurtleBlocks). I have found that > >> once the students and teachers are involved with these activities, the > >> internet stuff goes away. > >> > >> But the bigger point that is missed in the story, and the broader > >> conversation, is that the XOs and Sugar tap into non-traditional > methods of > >> teaching and learning. When this invisible line is crossed, real magic > >> happens. It is the conversations which illuminate this invisible line > that > >> is tough. > > > > > > Gerald, > > > > please don't forget that very few of the teachers in Peru have the > > affordances available to you when you worked against that tide and helped > > your pupils reach that invisible line. You have received countless years > of > > professional training, have ready access to the world's and the > community's > > accumulated knowledge about using XOs and Sugar (thanks to the Internet), > > deal with student bodies who generally don't go hungry, have a pyhsic and > > social infrastructure that's available at very few Peruvian schools, etc. > > > > In short, I believe in the importance of crossing that invisible line > and I > > have been lucky enough to see some glimpses of that happening in the past > > few years. However a significant number of pupils and teachers in Peru > are > > miles and miles away from that line and will need other ways of support > to > > even get them close to it. > > > > I also think it's odd to see how the role of the Internet and the > > connectivity it enables between people is apparently deemphasized in this > > conversation. I remember a time where Connectivity was one of the 5 > > principles of OLPC, and for good reasons I dare say. Due to the > limitations > > of the Mesh network (and similarly so the newer ad-hoc networking > options) > > and the lack of infrastructure components such as access points most > pupils > > and teachers in Peru barely have access to local connectivity and all the > > affordances (incl. Sugar's collaboration features) and value it provides. > > No one is discounting the dire state of connectivity in Peru and as > CJL pointed out, there are people activitly trying to do something > about it, not just talk about it. Point taken. > > > > Also I believe that people here will simply have to get used to bad news > > (whether fully justified or not) coming out of Peru. The project there > still > > has potential but unless a lot of additional resources and brain power > are > > invested into its overall value proposition and usefulness will always > > remain questionable at best. > > I think you are projecting your own agenda on this discussion. And you're not? ;-) > Again, > no one is burying their head in the sand re short-comings, but at > least some of us believe that lack of Internet access does not mean > lack of opportunity to learn. > I'm not saying that a lack of Internet access equals a lack of learning opportunities (and I agree with your fundamental criticism of the NPR article there). At the same time there's no doubt that what is already an *extremely* challenging thing to do under the best of circumstances (getting across that line) is made even harder without Internet connectivity or offline substitutes such as school servers. Cheers, Christoph > regards. > > -walter > > > > Cheers, > > Christoph > > > >> > >> Just my two cents. > >> Gerald > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Christoph Derndorfer > >> <christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Sameer Verma <sve...@sfsu.edu> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > On 10/13/12, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> >> Alexandro, > >>>> >> > >>>> >> I think you are grossly underestimating the connectivity problem in > >>>> >> Peru. > >>>> > > >>>> > Yes maybe, but I understand most educational systems dont have > enough > >>>> > budget to acquire connectivity so getting connectivity from other > >>>> > sources like public buildings, libraries, will allow other resource > to > >>>> > come through without needing to be funded by the educational budget. > >>>> > > >>>> > Now if we are talking about, the whole town not having ways on > >>>> > connecting, then the next option would be looking for alternative > >>>> > sources, in Mexico they used Satelite modems. > >>>> > > >>>> > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/10324524/Capacitacion-Para-Maestros-Uso-Del-Aula-Enciclomedia#page=15 > >>>> > > >>>> > But other mediums like DSL modems attached to a wifi router will be > >>>> > able to get some basic Internet for HTML/images, IRC, etc. The big > >>>> > question is about the level of connectivity for copper phone lines. > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> It seems that a fair number of offline requirements will be served by > >>>> the XS school server, but I don't see that show up in any of the > >>>> conversations. Does any location in Peru use any version of the XS? > >>>> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/School_server) > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm not aware of any schools having school servers, at least they > didn't > >>> have them when I was there in 2010. The next best thing were USB > drives with > >>> some collections of offline materials compiled by DIGETE but as far as > I can > >>> tell only a certain percentage of teachers ever received theirs. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Christoph > >>> > >>>> > >>>> cheers, > >>>> Sameer > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> >> > >>>> >> regards. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> -walter > >>>> >> > >>>> >> -- > >>>> >> Walter Bender > >>>> >> Sugar Labs > >>>> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> Devel mailing list > >>>> >> de...@lists.laptop.org > >>>> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > -- > >>>> > Alexandro Colorado > >>>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice > >>>> > http://es.openoffice.org > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Devel mailing list > >>>> > de...@lists.laptop.org > >>>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list > >>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Christoph Derndorfer > >>> > >>> volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] > >>> editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] > >>> contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] > >>> > >>> e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sugar-devel mailing list > >>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Christoph Derndorfer > > > > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] > > editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] > > contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] > > > > e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu > > > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Christoph Derndorfer volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu
_______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel