On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Christoph Derndorfer > <christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Christoph Derndorfer > >> <christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito > >> > <gerald.ard...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> I wanted to share that we have faced the same criticisms in our > school > >> >> regarding the XOs. For the last four years, the teachers and students > >> >> have > >> >> complained that the devices do not connect well or reliably to our > >> >> wireless > >> >> network. > >> >> > >> >> Obviously, in our case, we have a wireless network and essentially > >> >> continuous access to the internet. But, what I have had to fight > >> >> against is > >> >> that this is the most basic use of any computing device. > >> >> > >> >> The only way I have been able to stem this tide is to come up with > >> >> projects and programs that made use of the XOs as standalone or mesh > >> >> networked devices. For example, we have done a lot with Memorize and > >> >> Etoys > >> >> and Scratch (and beginning to work with TurtleBlocks). I have found > >> >> that > >> >> once the students and teachers are involved with these activities, > the > >> >> internet stuff goes away. > >> >> > >> >> But the bigger point that is missed in the story, and the broader > >> >> conversation, is that the XOs and Sugar tap into non-traditional > >> >> methods of > >> >> teaching and learning. When this invisible line is crossed, real > magic > >> >> happens. It is the conversations which illuminate this invisible line > >> >> that > >> >> is tough. > >> > > >> > > >> > Gerald, > >> > > >> > please don't forget that very few of the teachers in Peru have the > >> > affordances available to you when you worked against that tide and > >> > helped > >> > your pupils reach that invisible line. You have received countless > years > >> > of > >> > professional training, have ready access to the world's and the > >> > community's > >> > accumulated knowledge about using XOs and Sugar (thanks to the > >> > Internet), > >> > deal with student bodies who generally don't go hungry, have a pyhsic > >> > and > >> > social infrastructure that's available at very few Peruvian schools, > >> > etc. > >> > > >> > In short, I believe in the importance of crossing that invisible line > >> > and I > >> > have been lucky enough to see some glimpses of that happening in the > >> > past > >> > few years. However a significant number of pupils and teachers in Peru > >> > are > >> > miles and miles away from that line and will need other ways of > support > >> > to > >> > even get them close to it. > >> > > >> > I also think it's odd to see how the role of the Internet and the > >> > connectivity it enables between people is apparently deemphasized in > >> > this > >> > conversation. I remember a time where Connectivity was one of the 5 > >> > principles of OLPC, and for good reasons I dare say. Due to the > >> > limitations > >> > of the Mesh network (and similarly so the newer ad-hoc networking > >> > options) > >> > and the lack of infrastructure components such as access points most > >> > pupils > >> > and teachers in Peru barely have access to local connectivity and all > >> > the > >> > affordances (incl. Sugar's collaboration features) and value it > >> > provides. > >> > >> No one is discounting the dire state of connectivity in Peru and as > >> CJL pointed out, there are people activitly trying to do something > >> about it, not just talk about it. > > > > > > Point taken. > > > >> > >> > > >> > Also I believe that people here will simply have to get used to bad > news > >> > (whether fully justified or not) coming out of Peru. The project there > >> > still > >> > has potential but unless a lot of additional resources and brain power > >> > are > >> > invested into its overall value proposition and usefulness will always > >> > remain questionable at best. > >> > >> I think you are projecting your own agenda on this discussion. > > > > > > And you're not? ;-) > > Actually, not. I am stating my opinion, not putting words in the > mouths of others. There is a difference. If that's how your perceived my previous message then I apologize, that was not my intention. > > > >> > >> Again, > >> no one is burying their head in the sand re short-comings, but at > >> least some of us believe that lack of Internet access does not mean > >> lack of opportunity to learn. > > > > > > I'm not saying that a lack of Internet access equals a lack of learning > > opportunities (and I agree with your fundamental criticism of the NPR > > article there). At the same time there's no doubt that what is already an > > *extremely* challenging thing to do under the best of circumstances > (getting > > across that line) is made even harder without Internet connectivity or > > offline substitutes such as school servers. > > Agreed. But perhaps for different reasons. I think the value of the > Internet to the project is much more about building a community of > practice and support than accessing learning materials. The Amazonas > page in Facebook is a case in point. > To me the experiences, good practices, lesson plans, etc. documented by teachers are as much learning materials as anything directly used by pupils. Cheers, Christoph > regards. > > -walter > > > > Cheers, > > Christoph > > > >> > >> regards. > >> > >> -walter > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > Christoph > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Just my two cents. > >> >> Gerald > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Christoph Derndorfer > >> >> <christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Sameer Verma <sve...@sfsu.edu> > wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org > > > >> >>>> wrote: > >> >>>> > On 10/13/12, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>> >> Alexandro, > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> I think you are grossly underestimating the connectivity problem > >> >>>> >> in > >> >>>> >> Peru. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > Yes maybe, but I understand most educational systems dont have > >> >>>> > enough > >> >>>> > budget to acquire connectivity so getting connectivity from other > >> >>>> > sources like public buildings, libraries, will allow other > resource > >> >>>> > to > >> >>>> > come through without needing to be funded by the educational > >> >>>> > budget. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > Now if we are talking about, the whole town not having ways on > >> >>>> > connecting, then the next option would be looking for alternative > >> >>>> > sources, in Mexico they used Satelite modems. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/10324524/Capacitacion-Para-Maestros-Uso-Del-Aula-Enciclomedia#page=15 > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > But other mediums like DSL modems attached to a wifi router will > be > >> >>>> > able to get some basic Internet for HTML/images, IRC, etc. The > big > >> >>>> > question is about the level of connectivity for copper phone > lines. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > >> >>>> It seems that a fair number of offline requirements will be served > by > >> >>>> the XS school server, but I don't see that show up in any of the > >> >>>> conversations. Does any location in Peru use any version of the XS? > >> >>>> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/School_server) > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm not aware of any schools having school servers, at least they > >> >>> didn't > >> >>> have them when I was there in 2010. The next best thing were USB > >> >>> drives with > >> >>> some collections of offline materials compiled by DIGETE but as far > as > >> >>> I can > >> >>> tell only a certain percentage of teachers ever received theirs. > >> >>> > >> >>> Cheers, > >> >>> Christoph > >> >>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> cheers, > >> >>>> Sameer > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> regards. > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> -walter > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> -- > >> >>>> >> Walter Bender > >> >>>> >> Sugar Labs > >> >>>> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org > >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> >> Devel mailing list > >> >>>> >> de...@lists.laptop.org > >> >>>> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > -- > >> >>>> > Alexandro Colorado > >> >>>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice > >> >>>> > http://es.openoffice.org > >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> > Devel mailing list > >> >>>> > de...@lists.laptop.org > >> >>>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list > >> >>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > >> >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Christoph Derndorfer > >> >>> > >> >>> volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] > >> >>> editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] > >> >>> contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] > >> >>> > >> >>> e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Sugar-devel mailing list > >> >>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > >> >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > >> >>> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Christoph Derndorfer > >> > > >> > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] > >> > editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] > >> > contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] > >> > > >> > e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Walter Bender > >> Sugar Labs > >> http://www.sugarlabs.org > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Christoph Derndorfer > > > > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] > > editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] > > contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] > > > > e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu > > > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Christoph Derndorfer volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net] e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu
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