On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner <jeff.elk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes, > pressing F3 did the trick. I should have remembered that from my OLPC > days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I > had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so > that he could experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with > them and is returning them to me. A quick look at: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0 > > reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running > Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the > Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess? > > James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian > has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the website > instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using > etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/). When you first boot from the > resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the > file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just: > > 1. Install Etcher. > 2. Download the Raspian image file. > 3. Write it to the microSD card. > 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions. > 5. Enjoy your new operating system! > > That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is > cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and > works like a charm. > > Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently > reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was > able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities. > Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not. > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message, can you show us the activity log, it can be found in `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`. > > I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you > see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar. I'm not going to > try to push things onto Debian stretch. Buster is looking like it > will become the stable distro sometime this Summer. After that > settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for > buster. Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during > June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next > September in any case. > > Thanks! > Jeff > Thanks. -- Ibiam Chihurumnaya ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron <qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > > > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view. Use the F3 > > key, as I said. See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch > > between views. > > > > Yes, what you are doing is useful. For your assumed goal of *truly* > > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements > > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about. > > > > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is > > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS). I've guided adults and > > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very > > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have. > > > > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and > > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the > > Journal appearing first. I've also removed the now unavailable > > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues > > to work fine. While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in > > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and > > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or > > reporting bugs to Debian. > > > > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages > > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository. > > > > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/ > > > > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use > > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: > > > OK, progress. Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities > > > are not showing (see screenshot). In the instant that the Desktop > > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4 > > > activities. > > > > > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the > > > community, and that we are on the same page. Here are my assumed > > > goals: > > > > > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as > > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform. > > > 2. A *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a > > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian. > > > > > > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a > > > learning platform within my school district, developing OER > > > educational curricula for it. > > > > > > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and > > > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a > > > pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it, > > > I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice. So if > > > we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both > > > students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! > > > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron <qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request > > > > to be iconified. > > > > > > > > Press the F3 key. > > > > > > > > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon. > > > > > > > > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM). > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: > > > > > Hi James and Alex, > > > > > > > > > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran: > > > > > > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm > > > > > > > > > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the > > > > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did > see > > > > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared). > > > > > > > > > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running: > > > > > > > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what I should do next. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! > > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron <qu...@laptop.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote: > > > > > > > Jeff, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present > in Debian > > > > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically > important) > > > > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not > yet been > > > > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian > 10 when it is > > > > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do > would be to run an > > > > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these > packages by > > > > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the > unstable repo, > > > > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at > https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of > these packages, > > > > > > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can > explain how to > > > > > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may also be of use > https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM: > > > > > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James. I'm a high > school / > > > > > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an > early > > > > > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area. I run > Debian in my > > > > > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the > Sugar desktop > > > > > > > > to work on that platform. It doesn't currently seem to > work. I don't > > > > > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide > reliable testing > > > > > > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use > to you. > > > > > > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a > state where > > > > > > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner > > > > > > > > Arlington Career Center > > > > > > > > Arlington, VA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy < > samsongo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Alex and James, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide > Jeff on how to get started? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner < > jeff.elk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a high school / community college computer science > teacher in > > > > > > > > > > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC > project for > > > > > > > > > > years and who would like to rejoin the community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on > the same > > > > > > > > > > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to > that working for > > > > > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The result is not a usable Sugar installation. I am > most eager to > > > > > > > > > > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum > developer, but I > > > > > > > > > > need to start with a working system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable > world! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > James Cameron > > > > > > http://quozl.netrek.org/ > > > > > > > > > ii gir1.2-sugarext-1.0 0.112-3 > amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit GObject > introspection > > > > > ii libsugarext-data 0.112-3 > all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit common files > > > > > ii libsugarext0:amd64 0.112-3 > amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit runtime library > > > > > ii python-sugar3 0.112-3 > all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit Python bindings > > > > > ii sugar-browse-activity 203-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - web browsing activity > > > > > ii sugar-calculate-activity 45-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - calculation activity > > > > > ii sugar-chat-activity 85-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - text chatting activity > > > > > ii sugar-icon-theme 0.112-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - icon theme > > > > > ii sugar-imageviewer-activity 64-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - image viewing activity > > > > > ii sugar-jukebox-activity 34-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - music jukebox activity > > > > > ii sugar-log-activity 39-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - log viewing and > reporting activity > > > > > ii sugar-pippy-activity 72~dfsg-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - Python programming > activity > > > > > ii sugar-read-activity 121-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - document viewer activity > > > > > ii sugar-session 0.112-6 > all Sugar Learning Platform - window manager > > > > > ii sugar-terminal-activity 45.4-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - terminal emulation > activity > > > > > ii sugar-themes 0.112-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - artwork > > > > > ii sugar-write-activity 100-1 > all Sugar Learning Platform - writing activity > > > > > > > > > > > > > ii sucrose 0.112-6 > all Sugar Learning Platform - Sucrose > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > James Cameron > > > > http://quozl.netrek.org/ > > > > > > > > -- > > James Cameron > > http://quozl.netrek.org/ >
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