On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 10:26:40AM -0400, John Meeks wrote: > The new information about version 0.7 sounds pretty good, but one thing > about it concerns me. Assuming I don't know anyone who is using freenet, > how do I get onto the network? (Remember, I'm asking this about the next > version, since it says you can only connect if a "friend" lets you. > Assuming I don't have a friend already using freenet, how do I get > connected?)
You will have to use the opennet, which is considerably less secure. > > This change worries me (unless I'm mis-understanding it), since it > basically ties the network to a group of real-life friends, it creates a > nice friendly map that the authorities could use to find everyone > interested in a given subject. I don't think the Chinese government would > have any problems getting someone's computer and seeing all the "friends" > it lists. They would have even less problems with the network as it is now. If I had access to the firewall rules I could block freenet, even in the absence of session bytes and other easy identifiers, in a day. > > In short, it seems like this change would create a set of isolated > networks, and remove the plausable deniability of the previous network. No. Firstly, there is no reason why the "isolated networks" cannot grow to be fairly large, and less reason to expect them not to link up and form even larger networks. Secondly, there will be an open network for those who require it; it will be easy for the chinese government to block it, the RIAA to DoS it, etc, (no more so than it is with freenet 0.5 however), but it will still exist. Thirdly, even in its initial iteration, the darknet retains security as long as your neighbours do not actively attack you. > > The "network of trust" concept seems to me to be deeply flawed, since > spies have been able to infiltrate even the most guarded networks of > "friends" (ie. the Mafia, the Manhattan project, etc). Trusting "some guy > I met on the internet" doesn't seem like something I'd really want to do. Cellular structures have been used throughout history. They are extremely resilient. Of course it is possible to attack them. But it is expensive. Whereas attacking the current freenet is EASY and CHEAP, because you can very quickly establish the location of every node on the network. If it is dangerous to run a node as such, then darknet is the ONLY option which can survive. Where you met somebody is irrelevant. I have casual acquaintances and good friends both "in real life" and on the internet. Depending on your level of paranoia, and where you live, you might want to connect to one or the other. > > I guess another way to look at it is that the network seems to be going > towards being more useful for people in countries like China and less > useful for people in the US. Plausable deniability is more useful in the > US, whereas secrecy is more useful in China. While I feel for people in > China, I myself am in the US, and so therefore look at the project from my > point of view (especially in the current political climate). There is a genuine concern that you will be particularly vulnerable to attack by the people you are directly connected to. It is very difficult to secure the network against local traitors. As far as "the current political climate" goes, if it is easy to destroy freenet, and if freenet is sufficiently useful and widespread to pose a serious threat to the powers that be, do you think that it will be tolerated? Either in China or in the US, in the pessimistic long term view propagated by most people on this channel? > > I'm also a bit concerned about the constant restarts, it seems that the > project is following the "fad security of the month" (although networks of > trust were around with PGP like 10 years ago). It doesn't have anything to do with the security fad of the month. It has to do with the unfortunate reality that any fully open system can be blocked very easily. Which means that an open freenet might be useful for a while in the West, but it will be blocked *very* easily in the less-free-world. > > Anyway, the reason I'm asking about this is because I currently have > Paypal set up to donate $20/month to the project, but I'm not > sure if I like the direction it's going. > > Any better explanation of how this will work (mainly "how can I connect if > I don't already know someone") would be greately appreciated. You can connect to the open network. Random matchmaking is not reasonable on the darknet, because we require a small world topology for routing to work. And I don't want to have the opennet connected directly to the darknet, because we need to show that the darknet can work on its own. > > Thanks. -- Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/support/attachments/20050917/4af60e35/attachment.pgp>
