Dave, I have meant to follow up on your message for some time, because
your ideas match what I am currently busy with - at last getting to it!
Our first immersive audio implementation uses networked PoE miniDSP
speakers which each incorporate a matrix mixer with volume and delay
control at the cross points. The delays were a later addition, and I
certainly found that the localization was enhanced by incorporating
delays. We implemented DBAP for the amplitude panning, but we have
implemented and experimented with VBAP. Given that our targeted
applications will need irregular speaker configurations, we have settled
on DBAP for now.
We had an idea, similar to yours, to utilize the signal processing
capabilities of audio interfaces/mixers. Because we owned MOTU devices,
we tried this first on three of the MOTU devices, and have updated our
ImmerGo software to work with these interfaces. However, it was not
possible to implement a delay matrix on the MOTU devices, so they just
have a DBAP implementation, not DBADP (your innovative label:)).
I am now working on a mixing console implementation where I believe I
can have delay/EQ at matrix cross points for a few channels, where there
is an inverse relationship between number of speakers and number of
channels with delay/EQ, although all channels can have DBAP. One does
need to have mix buses to enable this, and also there often is the
timing constraint, because a lot of messages go to the mixer as the
sound sources are spatialized. I have found that the MOTU devices are
very responsive in this regard.
Anyway, good to have a fellow DBADP enthusiast .
Regards,
Richard.
—
Richard Foss (PhD)
Software engineer/director
ImmersiveDSP
46 Silver Ranch Estate
Keurbooms River Road
Plettenberg Bay 6600
South Africa
Email: rich...@immersivedsp.com
Web: www.immersivedsp.com
Cell: +27832889354
On 2020/10/26 12:43 pm, Dave Hunt wrote:
Hi,
This conversation seems to have branched into a different topic: the
effectiveness of various immersive audio methods in different circumstances.
Ambisonics and VBAP are suitable for regular, or near regular, loudspeaker
arrays with a central listening area. DBAP is more suitable for wide area
irregular arrays, or even zones within the array, as is
one-loudspeaker-per-source sound for static sources.
A little mentioned alternative here is Delta Stereophony, where the source sound is
fed to each speaker with an appropriate gain and delay based on the distance of the
source from each speaker. TiMax is based on this approach. I’m sure that d&b’s
Soundscape, LISA, Iosono, Astro and several other systems aimed at large scale
immersive audio are also based on this. It could be regarded as stripped down wave
field synthesis, using a small fraction of the number of speakers required for true
WFS.
It could be called DBADP.
Because of the number of calculations required, especially for moving sources,
the trend here is for a dedicated hardware multi-channel spatial audio
processor controlled by software, or messages from a digital mixing desk. A
common format for these messages seems to be OSC.
https://www.lightsoundjournal.com/2020/03/05/is-immersive-audio-coming-of-age/
It would be feasible to incorporate this, or indeed any of these processes,
into digital mixing desks. though providing a good user interface is
problematic. As to plug-ins, that depends on the demand and the power of
computers.
SARS Covid 2 is likely to slow progress on this dramatically.
Ciao,
Dave Hunt
On 25 Oct 2020, at 16:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Recorder for ORTF-3D OUTDOOR SET
Date: 25 October 2020 at 12:56:11 GMT
To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
I think perhaps Stefan there is a language barrier or problem with
communication here ?
Your exact words were ""*It is important to see that every position is
panned to 2 speakers in *
*2D, and (usually) 3 speakers in 3D.*"
You didn't refer to mono - but I did refer to "one" channel being spread
over several speakers sounding crap (or blurring spatialisation) to which
you replied this was wrong because its how millions of records were made -
- of course I believe you know what were stereo is and were referring to
panning one sound source (eg a trumpet) across two speakers as in
stereophonic panning - "one soundsource" being different to "one channel"
- thus the confusion?
Yes I know what VBAP is - I literally said it uses triangles in my last
post and that I've used it for 15 years, VBAP is great - I do mix it with
ambisonics sometimes though.
As for upmixing stereo to 5.1 - I agree with you about leaving the front
left and right intact if you *HAVE* to do it - all I was saying is upmixing
stereo to 5.1 is never going to be as good as actually having a 5.1 mix to
start with all six discrete channels created from the beginning uising a
surround sound panner .(yes I know about the LFE).
By the way - you work for Steinbergs marketing department right? If you are
the same Stefan - will you PLEASE try and get them to incorporate some kind
of DBAP (Distance Based Amplitude Panning) or similar into Nuendo?
Basically, it would be great if you could draw speaker maps/position the
speakers in the panner by dragging and dropping them to different positions
(so then you could use really irregular arrays). For example, if I wanted
to pan sounds corridors in a labyrinth or maze (which I have done before),
or have a circle within a circle etc etc this would be a great feature and
would definitely give it an edge over competitors like reaper. Ive been
told you can do this in Pyramix but never seen it - but I have to do it in
Max MSP at the moment or use Nuendos panners in ways they werent meant to
be used. It would also be handy to adjust the directivity of soundsources.
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