Jeremy Blosser wrote:
> Jeff Grant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ralph Clark
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> > >Many people on this list, myself included, are able to help anyone who's
> > >willing
> > >to do some of the work themselves. But some of us may have little sympathy for
> > >people who come across as unremittingly lazy or greedy. Obviously mistakes can
> > >be made when one is making judgements on such scanty evidence, but that's life
> > >basically.
> > >
> > >So for those newbie lurkers reading this now - when you get around to posting a
> > >question, make sure you get your presentation right!
> > >
> >
> > Right. Doubtless there are - like in any other sphere of life -
> > pathological takers. But have you thought that maybe - just maybe - some
> > of us newbie lurkers out here might not know - did *you* always? - the
> > ramifications of the question we're asking? I think your attitude could
> > put a lot of people off asking, rather than encourage them. And what's
> > the point in that? All you have to do with those you suspect of being
> > 'unremittingly lazy or greedy' is ignore them.
>
> The point is that we don't have unlimited time and resources to answer all of
> your questions that we had to read and do the effort to find answers for.
>
> Some concrete examples of questions that will likely get nice help:
> 1) "Hi, I've checked the available documentation, but I can't seem to find the
> answer I need. Could someone give me a hand or point me in the right
> direction if I'm just missing something? <detailed description of problem,
> including relevant details>."
> 2) "Hi, I'm new to Linux... can someone tell me where to find more inforation
> about <topic or problem>."
>
> Example of questions that will probably get an RTFM:
> 1) "I just installed Lunix and I need to know how to make my system totally
> secure SOMEONE TELL ME HOW."
> 2) "How do I make WP8 underline things?"
> 3) "My monitor won't work with X Windows, how do I fix it?" (this prolly won't
> get an RTFM as much as a request for more detail -- what kind of monitor, what
> have you tried, etc -- and if these requests are met with a "I don't know why
> should it matter HELP ME NOW" response, they'll prolly not get much more
> help.)
>
> Yes we all know that we used to be newbies. Yes there is a matter of
> arrogance and pissing contests in this community, esp when dealing with
> newbies. There is also a matter of frustration when dealing with newbies,
> though. You need to remember that we all have only limited time, and it is
> frustrating to answer the same questions over and over when the answers are
> cleary documented (if it's an FAQ, there is prolly a FAQ document that
> contains it), simply because people haven't bothered to do any of their own
> checking. We're glad to help people that really need our help, but we aren't
> tech support robots. It's a waste of our time to answer the same basic
> questions over and over... time that could be better spent answering more
> difficult questions and continuing to gain knowledge ourselves. It is
> frustrating to feel that you're being taken for granted or taken advantage of,
> even if the other person isn't doing it maliciously or deliberately.
>
> For those that claim that in the Linux world RTFM doesn't apply because there
> is no single manual... I'm sorry, but that's just bogus. There are some basic
> sources of info for any problem that you can check. If they don't have the
> answer, they will likely contain pointers to more places to look.
>
> We're not expecting everyone to have read every book on Linux before asking a
> question. We're asking them to help us help them and others by first looking
> at the things we've done to make helping them easier (FAQs, the LDP, etc).
>
> For any given problem, you can check:
> 1) relevant man/info pages
> 2) other relevant FAQs/READMEs/manuals
> 3) the LDP: http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/
> 4) archives for relevant mailing lists/newgroups
> 5) postings to relevant mailing lists/newsgroups
> 6) the program/process' author/maintainer/contact person
>
> Note that lists like this are #5 on that list, and only after checking the
> archives. Yeah, we won't get everyone to always do all of that, and some man
> pages/etc are just beyond some people, but if people would at least make the
> effort, a lot of wasted time and repeated effort wouldn't happen.
>
> --
> Jeremy Blosser | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://jblosser.firinn.org/
You're absolutely right, that suns up the situation very well IMHO. Why don't you
make a shorter version of this post, including that 6-point checklist (but with the
bit about checking the past archives of the mailing list first more explicit) and
post it to the list every week? I think it would be helpful to the newbies.
Ralph
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ralph Clark, Virgo Solutions Ltd (UK)
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