Thanks, Stuart for adding some rigor to this thread. Wondering whether the fact that the straw is removed from the land instead of being tilled in to provide humus is significant. Would more chemical fertilizer (energy) be needed to wrest all of that straw from the land. I'm assuming, as you found with embedded emissions vs lifetime energy useage, that it is emissions-negligible?.
Rod On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Stuart Staniford <[email protected]> wrote: > I investigated these issues quantitatively for a simple model house some > years back. In general, embodied energy will be very small compared to the > lifetime energy usage of a building (they typically last at least decades > and often centuries). > > > http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2010/09/embodied-vs-sequestered-carbon-in-model.html > > However, for those concerned, it seems possible with certain material > choices to make embodied carbon emissions in the building materials less > than sequestered carbon (straw bale or agriboard, durisol foundation walls, > etc). > > However, there are fairly large uncertainties in the calculations since > one has no choice but to use global estimates for embodied carbon emissions > and the local situation could be different in important but unknowable > ways. There are also all the usual issues of where to draw boundaries > (when a carpenter is driving to the building site, should that be accounted > to his emissions, or the house’s?). > > http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2010/09/straw-bale-model-house.html > > http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2010/09/sip-home-embodied-emissions.html > > http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2010/09/durisol-foundation-house.html > > Stuart. > > On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Greg Nelson <[email protected]> wrote: > > As I had mentioned on the comments of the original post (still "awaiting > moderation" after 3 days): > > I sort of feel like you’re overlooking all of the fossil fuels present in >> these solutions as embedded energy. The fossil fuels released manufacturing >> SIPs, heat pumps, solar panels, or cars are substantial and need to be >> taken into account before you declare a solution zero-energy or fossil-free. >> Mind you, I’m not disagreeing that this is an important step along the >> road; but we also need to be working on establishing building codes that >> support the environment rather than the construction industry, and other >> things which will allow us to (safely and legally) use materials that are >> available on the building site or reuse items that would otherwise be >> headed for the landfill. > > > Greg > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Gagnon < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> True enough this, but Karl has a good point. It does matter how much >> energy is used to construct the building. Our choices of construction >> materials and techniques would be better informed if we taxed fossil >> carbon. The hidden energy both embodied and used in production would then >> be reflected in the price of materials and the cost of their assembly into >> buildings. >> >> Joel >> >> >> On 6/23/2016 12:37 PM, Christian Nielsen-Palacios wrote: >> >> While we could and should aspire to do more (restorative design, etc.), >> building NET-ZERO buildings is a laudable achievement. And I don't think >> the definition is deceptive. Such buildings DO produce as much energy as >> they consume (after they are built, or they wouldn't be "a building"). >> >> Christian >> >> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Regi Teasley <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you for these responses. >>> Yes, "net-zero" should include the lifecycle energy requirements. But >>> then, our beef is probably not with Ecovillage which aims for energy >>> conservation. Half a loaf...etc. >>> >>> Of course all these efforts are coming about forty years too late and, >>> God bless him, Jimmy Carter was right. Still, what are we to do? >>> >>> I say we make every feasible effort to develop better ways of living on >>> our beloved planet and learn as we go. Our grandchildren deserve no less. >>> Nature will sort out what, if anything, works. >>> >>> That's my two bits. >>> >>> Regi >>> "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love >>> everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things." Dostoyevsky. >>> >>> >>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Thomas Shelley < <[email protected]> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Karl. This is a great response. Even those promoting the >>> "net-zero-energy" concept are clueless re embodied energy in their fancy, >>> high-end homes and life-styles in general. We are going to hell in a >>> hand basket, as Dad used to say. I hope all is well up North. All is well >>> here and getting better. My wife and I just sold our Collegetown rental >>> property which is a great relief as it was a real stone about the leg. I >>> now have a lot more time for gardening and art work and things I have been >>> putting off for years. I still have in mind to write a TCLocal-style >>> article on embodied energy. Perhaps I will have time to do this now, as >>> well. Take care. Tom >>> On 6/22/2016 1:31 PM, S North wrote: >>> >>> >>> To describe houses like the Ecovillage one pictured in the article as >>> "net-zero-energy" is a gross deception of the public because it does not >>> begin to account for the full life cycle fossil energy costs involved, >>> which are huge. I have designed and currently live in a house that >>> incorporates most of the elements of the Ecovillage house, but I have >>> studied the full-scale energy costs, not only to me but to society, so I >>> have no illusions about such housing, unlike many who are being duped by >>> people who claim such houses will help save the planet. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> > > > -- > To dither or deliver/Decent deeds don't deceive > Decide to override/Poor programming > Gracious gratitude/Sprinkled and spread > Leading lives of love/And conscience instead > -- My Love > > > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ If you have questions about this list please contact the list manager, Tom Shelley, at [email protected].
