Ed, I agree that this topic needs to be reviewed, altered, understood and implemented. My concern was in the tone of the conversation. Money, guns and drugs are not the only topics that can bring a nasty tone to an issue.
Agriculture has become a cutthroat business. Big business has it's hand in farms because there is a profit to be made. Family farms have to compete in that world or change the whole concept of farming. My wife and I have become more concerned about these issues and have changed our buying habits accordingly. We rarely eat meat, if we do, it comes from a local co-op of farmers that own the processing plant. Local farmers markets have become our primary source for many other foods but given the climate that I live in, we have to sometimes hit the local food co-op to get our goods. This has become very expensive but we feel it is the responsible way to spend our money. Now my question becomes do we influence the farmer or the consumer or both? It becomes difficult to change the mind of a person on a fixed income who is trying to get the most food for the dollar. What about the person who makes more money than God? If they want to have Kobe beef that has been massaged by the feet of several Geisha's and flown by hired courier just after the calf is slaughered? We have become less concerned with the practice involved in getting our food and more concerned with getting it cheap. Blame the farmer for wanting to make a profit. Blame the consumer with wanting the best for the least amount of money. Blame the middleman for muddying up the water. I see this as a problem that will not get it's due until the ground cannot be farmed. I would rather talk about bio-fuels, fred --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "NBT - E. Beggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bothersome, yes. Also necessary, IMHO. > > Erosion, nitrification, pathogen and chemical contamination of groundwater > and watersheds, groundwater depletion, soil salinization, desertification, > and a commodity production system that pits farmer against farmer. > > These are real problems created by current, prevailing agricultural > practices that are in use on a massive scale. > > If we are interested in the use of biofuels, it is worth our time to > understand the issues and problems posed by our current system of > production, and start thinking about how those problems can be corrected, > before we can seriously promote renewable oil feedstock for our millions of > engines. > > It is good that some farmers still grow gardens, build digesters etc. but > many do not have time after a full day at a job in town followed by a full > evening and weekend on the tractor, practicing what they try to convince > themselves is "responsible" agriculture, but know deep down is not. > > It is too often farmer versus farmer, in a race for the greatest production > per acre, and it tends to mine the soil and water table and drives prices of > the final commodity down,. Always producing at the margin. > > The "winners" winter in Arizona, the "losers" sell out their smaller farms > and give it up. This has been going on for the last 50 years or so, the > smaller farms have largely disappeared and been consolidated into fewer, > larger holdings that rely extensively on industrial agriculture. > > The pastures and alfalfa and clover (N-fixing, deep rooted, soil-nourishing, > topsoil-retaining cover crops have given way to more and more soy, corn and > wheat in the Midwest, the fences ripped out, the windbreaks and woodlots > (that keep the water table higher) often gone with them, to make room for > larger and faster row crop machinery, larger fields, greater monocropping, > feedlots. > > Those practices are thought to provide lots of cheap food and in some ways > they do - at least for the short term. > > In other ways, if they are not truly providing more and better nourishment > for more people, and are causing environmental problems, they need to be > examined. > > How many farmers are aware that they could make their own fuel on their own > land, just as their grandfathers fed the horses that did the work? That they > can press their own oil using the hydraulics they already own, that the > presscake can be used as feed and fertilizer? > > How many know that they can often make decent money from organic crops, that > precision farming is a viable option, that digesters can work, that they can > build a house from materials off their own fields (straw, for example); in > short that there are other ways of doing things than the way they've mostly > been done over the last thirty to fifty years? > > Will they bother to change if they think there is no problem? > > Obviously the man who was insulted and left this group will not change - he > will likely spend the rest of his career in the belief that soy-burger > eating,commie, envirogreenie treehugger kooks are attacking his freedom of > action and way of life for no good reason. > > Perhaps a kinder approach would have got him thinking, perhaps he'll wonder > why the reaction against his way of doing things was so strong. We won't > know since he decided it's a stupid non-issue and left. > > But the discussion should occur, someway and somehow, even if it is > bothersome and annoying and messy and people's feelings get hurt, and this > is as good a forum as any. > > We are, after all, talking about biofuels, and they will have to come from > this "industry" we call "farming" - somehow. > > How best to do that is part of the package. It's of interest to me, and I > hope that aspect of the discussion surfaces form time to time amongst > members of this group. > > That's my 3.5 cents (2 cents US) worth. > > Ed B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:24 AM > Subject: [biofuel] Re: Dead Zone > > > > Quite bothersome, this debate over farmers and consumers. I for one > > spend time working on a farm during my vacation because my great uncle > > needs the help. As a matter of fact this year I am going to New York > > for a vacation instead of the farm. It seems that 6 years of farm > > labor has rewarded me with a kind cousin who will have his butt welded > > to a tractor instead of me. > > > > Responsible farming practices are out there. As a matter of fact, my > > uncle has (at my recommendation) built a small digester that has > > reduced the odor coming from his small heard of goats. The manure > > that he "processes" through the digester has become the fertilizer for > > his garden. He is looking at this for himself and others not only as > > a means of reducing and refining manure output but using the effluent > > as a fertilizer for his crops. Neighbors are interested in this > > including a large family ranch. > > > > If it is all the same I would rather not see a "us vs. them" debate. > > Farmer vs. consumer, U.S. vs. the world, Keith vs. hardworking farmer. > > It all gets old. I was under the impression that the purpose of this > > forum was to learn beyond the skills and technology that we have at > > hand. Debate and dissention have a place in every forum but I ask > > that through it all that we have respect. Without that we have noise. > > > > It is beginning to look ugly, > > > > my $0.02 > > > > fred > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Big myth too that the Midwest helps feed the world. Those crops > > are > > > > > commodities, traded for corporate profit, feeding mostly > > > > > shareholders, livestock and machines, not people. > > > > > > > > Well now, isnt that just pure babble. Of course its about > > > >profit, there > > > >are people in the midwest trying to make a living. As far as corp- > > > >orations go, you cant outlaw them, they for the most part are you > > and > > > >I, kinda like big, bad government. > > > > > > > > As far as the remark about not helping feed the world, I dont > > > >know if the rest of the world could fill in the void if we shut > > down > > > >for the year or not, I suppose you could eat soy burgers or > > something, > > > >oh I forgot we raise soybeans to. One other thing, if you dont want > > > >to > > > >contract mad cow, just keep chomping on that good ole USA beef that > > > >by the way eats the corn I raise. > > > > > > You really think corporations are just composites of the people > > > within them? Well, you're welcome. Of course farmers should make a > > > profit, but who do you think gets the lion's share, for doing the > > > least real work? Farmers should generally make more profit than they > > > generally do. Let's wait and see how long you get to keep saying > > that > > > last bit about mad cows. I very much hope it's very long indeed, but > > > I'm far from the only one with doubts, sadly. Me, I'll keep trying > > to > > > avoid beef not raised on grass, as per the design specs. Yes, I know > > > about the soy, kind of a stock item on this list. You're growing > > even > > > more of it this year we're told, something to do with the high cost > > > of N fertilisers for corn. Not that soy fixes much N anyway. > > > > > > Go ahead, shut down for a year, nobody else'll mind that much, or at > > > least not because of a lack of food, per se. Some more babble for > > > you. The US imports about $1.5 billion worth of beef a year.* The US > > > and the other industrialised countries are the world's major food > > > importers, importing 71% of the total value of food items in world > > > trade.** The US imports 54% more in farm commodities than it > > > exports,*** much of it from countries where the majority lack a > > > healthy diet. The US is in fact the biggest food importer the world > > > has ever seen. > > > > > > * Food and Agriculture Organisation, FAO Trade Yearbook 1995, vol. > > 49 > > > (Rome: FAO, 1996), 160, table 12. > > > ** Handbook of International Trade and Development Statistics 1994 > > > (New York and Geneva: United Nations Conference on Trade and > > > Development, 1995), table 3.2. > > > *** FAO Trade Yearbook 1995, table 6. > > > > > > But maybe you prefer the myths. Your choice of course. By the way, > > > apart from cattle-fodder corn, do you raise any actual food on your > > > farm? I mean stuff that people eat? Do you raise your own food? Not > > > just a challenge, I hope you can say yes and yes - no and no would > > be > > > disappointing. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Keith Addison > > > Journey to Forever > > > Handmade Projects > > > Tokyo > > > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
