it is effective, if done properly. see my ongoing project at http://www.webconx.com/cogen.htm
Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Mirror Site http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 1:15 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: running a house from a generator I was just thinking about the idea of converting excess energy to heat. Now if you eliminated your furnace and water heater, and ran a water heater-like reservoir off the genset instead of a radiator, then used that for a source of hot water, and maybe installed in- floor radiant heat and just pumped the antifreeze from the engine through there during the summer, you'd have enough "free" heat to heat your house. I wonder how using a small refrigerator unit would work to cool this radiant floor heating system to make it into a radiant floor cooling unit for summer. (rambling thoughts I guess) If you made your own fuel (let's say biodiesel) for cheap enough, you could run a fairly decent genset 24/7. If you were to assume that the typical 60 amp home service (@220 v.) would be about 13 kw (of course, that 13 Kw would be for peak usage, and if you cut it down to say 8 kw, and figured out a way to not have the dryer, or the oven, or some large appliance running at the same time, you could avoid this. Another way to do this could be to have 2 small 4-5 kw generators, then you could run one generator 24 hrs a day and have a switch on the other one to run at peak hours. Another rambling of thoughts... and probably not very cost effective. JEFF --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What I suggest about freezers is the good old way. My side is a farm > with quite a history behind. One detail is that the farm had an ice > celler! During the winter a lot of ice was freezed and stored in a > good isolated celler deep under the ground. During the summer small > pieces of the ice was used to freeze the meat etc. They managed to > keep the ice during the whole summer (our summer is hot ~30-35¡C)! > Further we have a celler under the house which always have a > temperature under 12¡C! If I locate a freezer in the celler and I > make a big isolation around, freeze it with real ice I think it > should do the trick...An other method is to run it from solar energy. > Only a small PV panel would need. When there's hot and the sun shines > then you need the most energy for freezing. > > I was dealing with the water storage as well. The potential energy is > a nasty thing! If you want to pump water, you have either pump it > very high (hydroglobus) or you have to pump a lot! Imagine to have a > water tank with thousands of liter a couple of meter above the ground! > Hmmm.... > > I was dealing with a lot ways and ideas but finally I got a hint > from "primemover" about veg oil. > My problem is always the storage of energy! I can genrate everything, > but how to store it? > Now I think the question is other way round. I have enough fuel that > can be storaged good, so what I need is a flexible energy > transfering. I mean from veg oil to electicity, heat, etc. > The batteries against this idea. What you do is transfer the energy > stored in the veg oil and store it again in the DC batteries. Then > you transfer it again to AC when needed. Only because it is easier to > control an inverter! > Instead of that I want to control the genset better. > > I was meantioning the energy balance before. Take a few word about it. > Suggest I want to run my vacum cleaner and toaster so I switch on the > genset. It producing around 4-5kW which is of course far too much for > the load. Meanwhile I charge the small battery banks that take a > little load as well. The rest of generated electicity can be used to > e.g. freeze ice or heat water (or steam up) (also energy storage) > It seems to be that the need of hot water is much more then the > electricity that is generated parallel! So if you have surplus > electicity just convert it to heat and then the balance is OK. > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Anton Berteaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i saw a fridge and freezer in a jade mountain catatlog that was > made for > > sailboats that had a powerful cooler, and eutectic plates > (essentially walls > > witrh liquid that freezes and then takes heat away as it unfreezes) > that > > will stay cold with an hour otr two of gen run time a day, but I > still think > > a super insulated frige running on solar with genny backup to make > more > > electricity and supply heat in the winter when there is less sun is > the best > > option . have no numbers on this, so consider it heresay... > > anton > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 9:02 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] running a house from a generator > > > > > > One problem that I found years ago when I lived off grid was > dealing > > with the power needs of a freezer. And refridgerators are about the > same. We > > had a genset with an automatic switch so that it would start > whenever we > > turned on a light in the house. We bought the most efficient chest > freezer > > we could find, which really didn't use much when it was on (about > 150watts), > > just when starting, but the problem is that freezers and fridges > want to be > > on 20 minutes out of every hour. So I had to turn off the auto start > > feature. > > I tried just running the genset 8 hours a day, 4 in the am, 4 > at night, > > but that didn't cut it for the freezer -- would have worked for a > fridge, I > > think, but we couldn't keep meat frozen doing that. And I talked to > some of > > the local resort owners who were also off grid and their solution > was to > > just run the gensets 24/7 to keep their freezers going and > incidently > > provide lights, etc. Of course, they had propane gensets and could > write it > > off their taxes. > > So if you're going to be off grid, your only real choices are > a big > > enough battery bank, and big enough inverter, to handle the > freezer, or just > > run the genset 24/7. Maybe you could get away with less than 24, > you'd have > > to experiment, but freezing and thawing and freezing wrecks food > very > > quickly. > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > My idea is like Krik's, to generate electricity on demand. This > seems > > > to me somewhat more efficient then charging batteries. The > problems > > > are known about low charging rates. But WHY do you want to charge > > > such a huge battery bank? It's too expensive I think! > > > If you would generate electicity only on need then you would avoid > > > this is a minor problem.. > > > > > > > > > > > The only question for me is the start up procedure of a diesel > > > generator running on SVO. I read about the need of preheated fuel > and > > > distributor. As a stationary generator I might manage to keep > > > everything warm until the next start. I suggest it would work that > > > way. Specially because I plan to run a big furnace (heated by > straw > > > bales) parallel that would always give enough warmth for start > up.. > > > > > > > Don't forget you've got to startup and shutdown each time on > diesel (or > > biodiesel) so if you're not going to run continuously, you'll need > to figure > > out someway to automate that. > > > > > > -- > > Harmon Seaver, MLIS > > CyberShamanix > > Work 920-203-9633 > > Home 920-233-5820 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
