Correct. And as others have taken such great pains to debunk psuedo-science
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00040A72-A95C-1CDA-B4A 8809EC588EEDF why should anyone take equal or greater pains here? At least not since the rebuttal was thorough and principally accurate. I'm afraid Mr. Witmer is not much more than a lost looking for a cause. Todd Swearingen ----- Original Message ----- From: Olga Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America havebrought the world's worst drought to Africa > There's quite a bit of detailed disussion of Lomborg's book at the > Scientific American site below: > > http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00000B96-9517-1CDA-B4A 8809EC588EEDF&p > ageNumber=1&catID=4 > > > >Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of > >whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that > >Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound > >very much like someone who is involved in the black ops > >profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do > >some public good is infected with these folks who just keep > >causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who > >offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their > >own damn list. > > > >kris > > > > > >--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Well, Mr Witmer > >> > >> It's not often that a person has both Gary North and > >> Bjorn Lomborg > >> quoted at him in the same day. If you and them make three > >> straight > >> saws, I'll be fully confident in cutting a dead straight > >> line with my > >> allegedly bent one. > >> > >> No, it's not something akin to a religious confrontation, > >> not by any > >> means. That would simply be the last resort of someone > >> who's been > >> confronted with contrary evidence and been unable to > >> produce any of > >> his own, abandoning his points along the way as they > >> became > >> untenable, pretending they never existed in the first > >> place, and > >> finally being left without a leg to stand on, and hence > >> this retreat > >> into an essentially non-rational arena, hoping to find > >> safety there. > >> It's just cant. As is the stuff below about science. > >> > >> >Well, Keith and other friends, what we really have here > >> is something > >> >akin to a religious confrontation, because the > >> disagreement involves > >> >fundamental differences in worldview and > >> presuppositions. For example, a > >> >perusal of reviews of Bjorn Lomborg's "The Skeptical > >> Environmentalist: > >> >Measuring the Real State of the World" ( > >> >http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521010683/ ) shows > >> that there is > >> >virtually no middle ground: everyone either loves it or > >> loathes it. And > >> >that has been the case since the modern environmentalist > >> movement began > >> >with books like Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring," which > >> similarly > >> >produces extreme reactions from readers. I have profound > >> disagreements > >> >with the entire set of Malthusian, Darwinian, Marxist > >> and Freudian > >> >presuppositions that pervade most of modern thought, > >> especially in the > >> >sciences. Science is hardly value-free and neutral. The > >> set of > >> >presuppositions that any scientist brings to his work > >> will surely affect > >> >the outcome of that work. As I see it, modern scientists > >> include lots of > >> >brilliant men, and most of them are cutting with a bent > >> saw. It doesn't > >> >matter how sharp a bent saw is, it still can't cut > >> straight. The vast > >> >majority of scientists study neither the history of > >> scientific thought > >> >nor the philosophy of science, and thus fail to > >> recognize that according > >> >due to the presuppositions of their modern worldview, > >> there is no way > >> >they can explain how science even ought to be possible. > >> To me these > >> >scientists seem to be living an incongruity without ever > >> becoming aware > >> >of the fact. Be that as it may, I recognize there is a > >> huge body of > >> >research purporting to support the conclusion that a > >> global warming > >> >disaster is in the making. Well, if our bent-saw > >> researchers continue > >> >cutting long enough, they shall come full circle. They > >> shall produce new > >> >theories to replace their previous discredited theories, > >> and the new > >> >theories will be accepted as gospel, just like the > >> earlier ones were. > >> >Not to worry, there will no doubt be a steady stream of > >> new > >> >environmental crises to keep everyone fully employed. As > >> for me, I plan > >> >to continue driving a biodiesel or SVO vehicle happy in > >> the knowledge > >> >that I am thereby saving money and eliminating > >> unnecessary local > >> >pollution and waste, but not overly concerned about how > >> that affects the > >> >climate/weather on the opposite side of the globe. I > >> will gratefully > >> >avail myself of the excellent biodiesel resources > >> available on this list > >> >and at websites like Keith's JTF, and shall simply > >> sidestep what I > >> >perceive to be the ideological cow patties littering the > >> field. Sorry > >> >for having taken up bandwidth with a discussion that, > >> albeit important, > >> >is peripheral to this list's main matter of business. > >> > >> We've had quite a few discussions about what this list's > >> main matter > >> of business is, and here's the answer: whatever we like. > >> Who says so? > >> I do. And with good reason, which, if you care to, you'll > >> find very > >> rationally outlined in the archives, sans religion, sans > >> politics, > >> and several times. > >> > >> What it all comes down to, in this case, is that you > >> flung about > >> quite a few unwarranted opinionations that you were > >> unable to support > >> when challenged, any more than you'd be able to support > >> those above. > >> But at least now you don't even claim that they're > >> anything but > >> opinions. I'm afraid you don't demonstrate much knowledge > >> of the > >> history of thought or the philosophy of science, nor of > >> the current > >> status of either of them. You can pin your Malthus, Marx > >> and Freud > >> labels on someone else, if you please, though I'll admit > >> one of my > >> favourite books is Darwin. Not the one you're thinking of > >> though: > >> it's called "The Formation of Vegetable Mould through the > >> Action of > >> Worms, with Observations on their Habits". It was his > >> favourite too, > >> and it might surprise you. As for the "ideological cow > >> patties > >> littering the field", those are all yours. I've stuck to > >> information > >> and data, I can back up anything I've said with a lot > >> more > >> information and data, and I'm not selective about it. > >> You've > >> presented no credible information or data, just ideology. > >> Cowpats, if > >> you will, and I'd agree - everyone's entitled to their > >> opinions, but > >> as I said, this isn't your village pub, and if you insist > >> on airing > >> here what are really barely disguised prejudices, an > >> apologia for > >> several kinds of gross injustice, you'll have me to deal > >> with. After > >> all, that's what JtF is all about, even the biodiesel bit > >> of it. > >> Which you're more than welcome to avail yourself of, even > >> if you > >> don't understand what it's for, or don't want to. > >> > >> Keith Addison > >> List owner > >> > >> >-- Christopher Witmer > >> >Tokyo > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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