look at magnesium-aluminum hydride. Much lighter and cheaper than
iron-titanium. You could use a small iron-titanium to start the engine and
run it a few minutes until the exhaust heat activated the Mg-Al.

Kirk

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".


Wow!!, thanks for the data. You really have done some research on this.

What appears to be the ultimate answer to the alternative energy game and
the clean air game is that of solar electric energy used at the instant of
it's conversion from sun energy to electric energy since there would be no
storage or conversion medium involved.

Yes, there is one little problem involved with the 40 foot trailer full of
solar panels making the electricity that would follow one everywhere they
go.

Since you agree with my thoughts that electric wins hands down, what can we
now do to utilize the electricity generated by the panel while we are
parked?? Inverters and feed the grid and other types of usage so we don't
waste it?

It would appear that if we could come up with batterys that would live the
life of the car or nearly that and/or the panels were at home, they could
produce one's hydrogen and supply the compressor horsepower to get your 3000
pounds in your tanks. Another smog cure if we don't find a fault with the
burning of hydrogen in an ICE that troubles the environment.

It appears that we have solutions but lack storage or fueling capacity and
it's generation as the problems to solve.

Thanks !!

Bob

robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Robert Mills wrote:

> Robert;
> my question; which energy, hydrogen or electricity, (per therm or 100,000
btu's or US gallon) would ultimately be the lowest energy cost for the
operation of a motor vehicle on the roads as transportation using the
numbers you previously used in your post?
>
> Thanks !!
>
> Bob
>
>     That's a tough question!  If we consider fuel costs alone, electricity
wins by a wide margin.  The typical electric car is roughly five times more
efficient than an externally mixed, internal combustion engine--not a
diesel.  (I derive this from
> comparing the economy of my 2.3 liter gasoline Ranger to that of an
electric Ranger owned by a frequent contributor to Usenet's
"sci.energy.hydrogen" list.)

    The ugly secret of electric vehicles is that battery replacement is
roughly equivalent to the fuel cost of a comparable gasoline model over a
three or four year period of time.  (This I discovered by comparing the
battery replacement costs of an electric
Mazda B 2000, which is essentially the same truck I own, after having a long
talk with its owner.)  In a hybrid, batteries should last considerably
longer, and that may tip the dynamic entirely in the other direction.

    A hydrogen conversion for my truck would cost me at least $7 000 for the
natural gas tanks, regulators and injectors, as well as the compressor to
fill the tanks safely.  (If ANYTHING at 3 000 psi is safe!)  This is a
little bit less than an electric
conversion, but not by much.  Commercial electrolyzers don't get sold to the
average consumer, so I'd be stuck with one I can make myself.  While this is
easily done and relatively inexpensive (a few hundred dollars in materials),
it's very hard to make an
efficient electrolyzer without using platinized platinum anodes and cathodes
and extremely thin separator membranes.  (The best I've ever done is about
25% efficient, which means that a kilogram of hydrogen would require about
128 kWh of electricity to
produce, and I'd have a LOT of waste heat left over.)

    Therefore, the cost of my "fuel" (really electricity in disguise) would
be $7.68 per kilogram.  So, one of two things needs to happen.  Either I
have access to REALLY CHEAP electricity, like a personal hydro system that
generates excess current, or I have
to find a very efficient electrolyzer.  The former is not easily found, and
trust me, I've been looking for a LONG time!  The latter is too expensive,
and not available to people like me anyway.

    However, we can put a "biofuels" angle on this.  Hydrogen can be
produced from sugars by the same bacteria responsible for methanogensis of
carbon and nitrogen feedstocks.  I've done this, and it's relatively easy.
The trick is to find a really cheap
source of sugar, and build a digester big enough to make it practical.

    In reality, biodiesel and ethanol are easier and likely more efficient.
Personally, I think that hybrid electrics will be the most practical
solution for most people who own and drive automobiles.  Better yet, if
driving can be avoided, it should be.


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782



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