"The Moon is down", by John Steinbeck
Brian wrote: > I had read a fantastic short story relating to just this issue about > 20 years ago. I thought it was by Steinbeck, but have been unable > to ever find it again. It was about residents in a northern > European town occupied by the nazis, and their underground > resistance. The point to the story was exactly that people will > continue to fight for ideology long after they are clearly defeated, > and that this is a fight that can't be lost in the long run. I > wiswh that I could find that story again. > > Brian > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Art Krenzel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>Robert, >> >>I would like to pass on something I learned in the last war the US > > began to prevent communism from taking over and to establish > Democracy in a third world nation (and we lost that one rather > badly). I served honorably in the Vietnam War and this was my > combat lesson in a sentence. > >>TECHNOLOGY CANNOT BEAT IDEOLOGY! >> >>When people are willing to run into the face of guns armed only > > with a broken stick and a willingness to die - Technology shock and > awe is reversed against those who only bring technology onto the > battlefield. I know. Let us not learn that lesson again. > >>Art Krenzel >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: robert luis rabello >> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:11 PM >> Subject: Re: [biofuel] OT: House of Bush, House of Saud book > > report > >> >> >> >> Hakan Falk wrote: >> >> > >> > Robert, >> > >> > It was very interesting to read your thorough analysis, they > > are very > >> > good. >> > It will be difficult to get the Iraqi oil on line, as long as > > the > >> > occupation continues and I think that Bush understand that and > > that is > >> > why >> > he pushes the June deadline. >> >> >> He may be a bit simple minded, but I don't think the man is > > entirely > >> without wit. There is a political element to this as well, > > given that > >> daily casualty reports are an irritant to the voting public. > > Mr. Bush > >> faces another election in November, and I think he'd like to > > have power > >> handed over already so that he can distance himself from the > > daily > >> carnage, call the operation a success, wave the flag a bit more > > and stir > >> up additional political support. (Not that he's going to need > > it with > >> the campaign funding he's already amassed!) >> >> > The problem is that it is an other naive >> > miscalculation, to belive that they can have a strong puppet > > regime. > >> Didn't the British have that experience in the 1930's? I > > recall > >> reading that the RAF had to enforce an unpopular tax by strafing >> unfriendly villages. I hope we don't resort to such tactics > > this time > >> around. >> >> > It is >> > in a hurry, because without Iraq, it is no space for swing > > production and > >> > any pressures to keep oil prices low. The Saudis have always > > been in > >> > support of US, but I think that all the anti Saudi talk, is > > bringing this > >> > to an end and with serious consequences. They will not make > > the > >> > mistake to >> > declare this openly, but the result will be the same and the > > anti Saudi > >> > talk will be even stronger. The only disaster that US is > > missing, is a > >> > very >> > bad relationship with the Saudis (declared 25% of the worlds > > oil > >> > reserves, >> > but probably largely over estimated). >> >> Saudi Arabia is a SERIOUS problem for us. Alan's post that >> originated this thread may illustrate the links between the Bush > > family > >> and the House of Saud, but nobody seems too willing to discuss > > the > >> potential problems that may arise when King Faud dies. >> >> > Of course, US can always go back to >> > try Venezuela again. LOL >> >> We've been bullies in Latin America for a long time. That > > region of > >> the world is particularly dear to me. >> >> > >> > It is also an other small thing that make the Iraqi situation > > difficult. > >> > With the first Gulf war, where the Americans wiped out the > > Iraqi army, > >> > the >> > US led embargo that killed at least 5,000 children a year and > > finally the > >> > invasion of Iraq, it is very few families in Iraq who did not > > have a > >> > family >> > member or a friend killed by the Americans. After all, 80% of > > the Iraqi > >> > population is women and children under 16 years of age. The > > Americans do > >> > not have the finesse of Saddam, were the parts of population > > was played > >> > against each other, a sort of politics. The Americans are more > > true to > >> > the >> > American democracy, they kill everybody, without any prejudice > > to race, > >> > color or position. I think that it is the trigger happiness in > > Wild West > >> > style. >> >> I woudn't say that. Whoever puts the most ordinance on > > target > >> usually wins in a conventional war; a lesson the Russians > > learned from > >> Napolean and used with devastating effect on the Wermacht at the > > end of > >> WW II. I've said before that the military is a blunt > > instrument, at > >> best. Our armed services effectively destroyed the > > world's "fourth > >> largest army" because the weapons systems and tactics we've > > developed > >> are intended to deliver maximum firepower on a given target. >> (Especially the Soviet equipment that largely made up Saddam's > > army.) > >> That works well in conventional warfare against readily > > identifiable > >> targets. The asymmetrical tactics being used by the opposition > > in Iraq > >> cannot be effectively countered this way because the political > > costs for > >> slaying civilians en-masse is too high for us to pay. >> >> > I have a couple of simple questions. Is it possible to win the >> > peoples harts and mind, when you killed the same peoples > > grandfather, > >> > grandmother, father, mother, brother, sister or friends? Is it > > not a very > >> > naive proposition? >> >> I think it's unlikely that we will win much Iraqi > > admiration. Most > >> of us over here will be shocked at this, but that's because so > > few of us > >> can see the conflict from the same perspective as the average > > Iraqi. > >> > You are right, to get the Iraqi oil on line, US have to be > > even more > >> > ruthless than the evil dictator Saddam, at least he was a > > native and they > >> > could take it from one of their own. I do not belive that this > > is > >> > possible >> > for the American society. It is too many decent Americans, for > > Bush to > >> > get >> > away with it. >> >> You have great faith! I sense a different mood among my >> countrymen. I hope you are right and I am wrong. >> >> > >> > The best chance of success would be to make a deal and > > reinstate Saddam, > >> > but this is not going to happen. Although they now are > > reinstating > >> > parts of >> > the Baath party members. LOL >> >> I don't think Saddam will ever see power again. >> >> > The current junta is without a chance and the will be the next > > victims of > >> > US policies, it would not be the first time and actually in > > line with US > >> > reputation in the world. They are not known to stick with > > their > >> > democratic >> > friends, when thing get tough they prefer a strong dictator to > > do the > >> > dirty >> > work. >> >> Ask the Latin Americans and Iranians about this. They have >> experienced the problem you describe first hand. >> >> robert luis rabello >> "The Edge of Justice" >> Adventure for Your Mind >> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 >> >> >> >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Biofuels list archives: >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ >> >> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >> To unsubscribe, send an email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------- > >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ >> >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > > of Service. > >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------- The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG -------------------------------------------------------------------- --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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