Bob,
Have you visited http://jouneytofoever.org/ and read it? If so, I think that you will understand that this group is about supporting biofuels, allocation, use and development of the world resources. This for the good of the whole world and not only a selected "elite". It has attracted a lot of very interesting and caring individuals, who are truly interested in the use of energy resources to the benefit of mankind. It is nearly impossible to be genuinely interested in alternative energy resources or energy conservation and not get involved in attitude and political views. To do anything connected with energy for the future generations, also means an uphill battle with oil industry interests, who really would like to narrow fuel discussions to the level you suggest. Do not think about the distribution of wealth and energy use, it is not good for you. Do not thinks about how the energy wealth are used, you will not like it. Why should you conserve or produce energy, they will fix it for you, so do not worry about politics. Why should you make your own fuel or at distributed scale, they and their politicians will take care of you, or at least 10% of the world population you belong to. Do not worry about the others. I can go on and 35 years of experience from all road blocks that can be thrown at you, if you are able to prove that we can easily save more than 50% of the energy use in residential and commercial buildings. No politics, huh? If the obstacles are not removed and we do not create a much better and cooperative environment for solving energy problems, we will not get anywhere and the consequences will be enormous. We also take the risk that the 90% will try to destroy the 10%. Except NZ of course, which have a great advantage in its location and can neglect the situation. NZ is also one of the most beautiful places on earth, privileged by its resources and small population. North Island is like an combination of England and Iceland (in summer) and South Island like Norway. With biofuels, you could probably shut the door to the problems of the rest of the world. No wonder that you do not like to hear about them. I have to remind you that I responded on an outrageous posting and I think that it was justified. About what is suitable topics for the list, I will leave to Keith. Hakan At 04:16 16/06/2004, you wrote: >Hi Hakan, > With respect to you and Dan, this is a biofuels group, not a >political discussion seminar. If all the hot air generated by the >Israeli/Arab question were bottled and pipe-fed worldwide we'd could close >this chatline and run our vehicles forever on the energy. >For the record, the State of Israel is not recognised by any Arab nation >other than Egypt. Worse, they have official policies in place to destroy it. >Whatever your view you can only join one side or the other. Allotting blame >is pointless. The war, which started with Abraham and his sheepherders >moving into Canaan (Israel) some 4,000 years ago, will continue until one >side or the other runs out of motivation (i.e.dollars or energy). >Until then, let's get back to biofuels. >Regards to you both. >Bob. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:12 PM >Subject: RE: [biofuel] wondering about this comment > > > > > > Dan, > > > > I fail to see how you can make such an answer to what I said. What you are > > saying have nothing at all to do with the issues that I bring up in my > > posting. This about most inhabited part of the country, have you ever been > > visiting Israel? Do you really understand the geography and can you get > > further away from Palestinians, than this corner part of Golan heights and > > Lebanese/Syrian border? Why do you have to say this ignorant things, it > > attacks my naive beliefs on the superior human intellect. > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 19:10 15/06/2004, you wrote: > > > > >I visited Israel recently and toured the Golan among other places. The > > >Golan is the perfect place for anyone bent on the destruction of Israel > > >(like Syria professes to be) to possess so that they can just drop their > > >artillery shells on the most inhabitted sections of the country. That's > > >what they tried to do in 1967 and there is absolutely no reason for > > >anyone to believe that they will not repeat that if they ever get the > > >Golan back. The only way Israel can be secure is to retain the Golan > > >and keep those people who wish to see Israel destroyed off of it. > > > > > >But isn't this supposed to be the biofuels list? > > > > > >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:57 AM > > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment > > > > > > > > >Steve, > > > > > >This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We have > > >international laws that regulate this and none is supporting your and > > >Israel's view about individual ownership, as you are stating it. It > > >might have been true some hundreds years ago, but today ownership must > > >be respected. This have nothing to do with what the state occupies > > >whoever, they are obliged by international law to respect individual > > >property rights. An occupier have the obligation to protect the occupied > > >population and provide a secure environment in accordance to > > >international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either. > > >Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel and > > >its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that for so > > >long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, commit > > >such crimes today. > > > > > >Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more upset > > >and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get so upset > > >and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit in the > > >modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone support > > >land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims of a > > >conflict between states and not personally responsible. > > > > > >How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian > > >view. > > >The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might be > > >a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and government of > > >countries are expected to follow international laws, if not, they are > > >criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these laws and have ratified > > >them, their behavior is not supportable. > > > > > >Hakan > > > > > >At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote: > > > > >I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and > > > > >what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven > > > > >them out of their land. > > > > > i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal > > > > >is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal > > > > >returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews > > > > >rejected it? > > > > > > > >If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel > > > >that the money still belongs to his employer? > > > > > > > >When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the > > > >people you captured it from. These are the same things.. > > > > > > > >That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is theirs.. > > > > > > >they were attacked... they won. > > > > > > > >End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
