Sorry Bob,
Should have been http://journeytoforever.org/ I have to improve my eye for spelling mistakes. . Hakan At 06:02 16/06/2004, you wrote: >Bob, > >Have you visited <http://jouneytofoever.org/>http://jouneytofoever.org/ >and read it? If so, I think >that you will understand that this group is about supporting biofuels, >allocation, use and development of the world resources. This for the good >of the whole world and not only a selected "elite". It has attracted a lot >of very interesting and caring individuals, who are truly interested in the >use of energy resources to the benefit of mankind. It is nearly impossible >to be genuinely interested in alternative energy resources or energy >conservation and not get involved in attitude and political views. To do >anything connected with energy for the future generations, also means an >uphill battle with oil industry interests, who really would like to narrow >fuel discussions to the level you suggest. > >Do not think about the distribution of wealth and energy use, it is not >good for you. > >Do not thinks about how the energy wealth are used, you will not like it. > >Why should you conserve or produce energy, they will fix it for you, so do >not worry about politics. > >Why should you make your own fuel or at distributed scale, they and their >politicians will take care of you, or at least 10% of the world population >you belong to. Do not worry about the others. > >I can go on and 35 years of experience from all road blocks that can be >thrown at you, if you are able to prove that we can easily save more than >50% of the energy use in residential and commercial buildings. No politics, >huh? If the obstacles are not removed and we do not create a much better >and cooperative environment for solving energy problems, we will not get >anywhere and the consequences will be enormous. We also take the risk that >the 90% will try to destroy the 10%. Except NZ of course, which have a >great advantage in its location and can neglect the situation. > >NZ is also one of the most beautiful places on earth, privileged by its >resources and small population. North Island is like an combination of >England and Iceland (in summer) and South Island like Norway. With >biofuels, you could probably shut the door to the problems of the rest of >the world. No wonder that you do not like to hear about them. I have to >remind you that I responded on an outrageous posting and I think that it >was justified. > >About what is suitable topics for the list, I will leave to Keith. > >Hakan > > >At 04:16 16/06/2004, you wrote: > >Hi Hakan, > > With respect to you and Dan, this is a biofuels group, > not a > >political discussion seminar. If all the hot air generated by the > >Israeli/Arab question were bottled and pipe-fed worldwide we'd could close > >this chatline and run our vehicles forever on the energy. > >For the record, the State of Israel is not recognised by any Arab nation > >other than Egypt. Worse, they have official policies in place to destroy it. > >Whatever your view you can only join one side or the other. Allotting blame > >is pointless. The war, which started with Abraham and his sheepherders > >moving into Canaan (Israel) some 4,000 years ago, will continue until one > >side or the other runs out of motivation (i.e.dollars or energy). > >Until then, let's get back to biofuels. > >Regards to you both. > >Bob. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:12 PM > >Subject: RE: [biofuel] wondering about this comment > > > > > > > > > > Dan, > > > > > > I fail to see how you can make such an answer to what I said. What > you are > > > saying have nothing at all to do with the issues that I bring up in my > > > posting. This about most inhabited part of the country, have you ever > been > > > visiting Israel? Do you really understand the geography and can you get > > > further away from Palestinians, than this corner part of Golan > heights and > > > Lebanese/Syrian border? Why do you have to say this ignorant things, it > > > attacks my naive beliefs on the superior human intellect. > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > At 19:10 15/06/2004, you wrote: > > > > > > >I visited Israel recently and toured the Golan among other places. The > > > >Golan is the perfect place for anyone bent on the destruction of Israel > > > >(like Syria professes to be) to possess so that they can just drop their > > > >artillery shells on the most inhabitted sections of the country. That's > > > >what they tried to do in 1967 and there is absolutely no reason for > > > >anyone to believe that they will not repeat that if they ever get the > > > >Golan back. The only way Israel can be secure is to retain the Golan > > > >and keep those people who wish to see Israel destroyed off of it. > > > > > > > >But isn't this supposed to be the biofuels list? > > > > > > > >Dan > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:57 AM > > > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve, > > > > > > > >This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We have > > > >international laws that regulate this and none is supporting your and > > > >Israel's view about individual ownership, as you are stating it. It > > > >might have been true some hundreds years ago, but today ownership must > > > >be respected. This have nothing to do with what the state occupies > > > >whoever, they are obliged by international law to respect individual > > > >property rights. An occupier have the obligation to protect the occupied > > > >population and provide a secure environment in accordance to > > > >international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either. > > > >Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel and > > > >its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that for so > > > >long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, commit > > > >such crimes today. > > > > > > > >Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more upset > > > >and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get so upset > > > >and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit in the > > > >modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone support > > > >land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims of a > > > >conflict between states and not personally responsible. > > > > > > > >How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian > > > >view. > > > >The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might be > > > >a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and government of > > > >countries are expected to follow international laws, if not, they are > > > >criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these laws and have ratified > > > >them, their behavior is not supportable. > > > > > > > >Hakan > > > > > > > >At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote: > > > > > >I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and > > > > > >what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven > > > > > >them out of their land. > > > > > > i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal > > > > > >is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal > > > > > >returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews > > > > > >rejected it? > > > > > > > > > >If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel > > > > >that the money still belongs to his employer? > > > > > > > > > >When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the > > > > >people you captured it from. These are the same things.. > > > > > > > > > >That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is > theirs.. > > > > > > > > >they were attacked... they won. > > > > > > > > > >End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: ><http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT ><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1294ojqmn/M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1087444970/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> >click here > >[] > > > >---------- >Yahoo! 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