This is the response I got from my coworker who is a chemist. Anybody
tried this? I think I tried the acetic acid once in college under
somebodies door, but I don't remember any french fry smelling bio-diesel
as a result... ;-)
>>> steven mesibov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 06/16/04 10:45am >>>
John,
Wondering if the glycerin byproduct of waste veggie oil (WVO) conversion
to biodiesel can be converted to something more useful. What do you think
of what they say below?
Steve Mesibov
In the first proposition, I believe you would simply end up with a
partially hydrogenated veggie oil. Congratulations, you just made
margarine. The sodium methoxide route you currently know about is pretty
darn direct as it is, even though glycerin is a by-product. I'd stick
with it.
In the second proposition, absolutely nothing will result. In fact,
alcohols are frequently used as solvents in hydrogenation reactions.
However, you could react the glycerin with dry formic acid or glacial
acetic acid. This will transform the glycerin into a methyl ester that
should blend nicely with the biodiesel. This methyl ester may be easy to
separate from the unreacted glycerin and acid since it should not be very
water soluble. In other words, adding water to the mixture after the
reaction is finished should cause it to separate into 2 distinct layers.
This is just an idea mind you. You will have to try it and see how it
goes. Nothing particularly dangerous about the reaction......pretty
commonplace and boring, actually. You will want to use a fairly large
excess of glycerin on a mole basis since the reaction is
equilibrium driven. (The disappearance of the strong smell of the acid
should signal the completion of the reaction).
Hope this helps.
John
-
-- Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com>
> From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 08:42:34 -0700
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct oil conversion?
>
> on 6/15/04 7:35 AM, tomasjkn at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > It seems to me, that there should be a direct chemical
> > conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters.
> >
> > (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) +3H2 ==> 3 R-COO-CH3
> >
> >
>
> Unfortunately, the ester linkage will always be much easier
> to break than the C-C bonds in the glycerol. I don't believe
> what you're suggesting would be possible.
>
>
> >
> > Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same
> > economy: Maybe there is a route to convert your waste
> > glycerol into methanol?
> >
> > CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 ==> 3 CH3OH
> >
> >
>
> This one is much more likely -- there are probly bacteria or
> yeasts that could break down a simple sugar like glycerol
> directly to methanol. If not, they could certainly be
> bioengineered :-) -K
>
--- tomasjkn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello dear fellow biofuelers,
> I have one theorethical question for chemists among you :). It seams
> to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from
> oil to fatty acid methyl esters.
>
> (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) + 3H2 ==> 3 R-COO-CH3
>
> Has anyone of you studied this conversion path? This path seams to
> have greater potential for beeing cheaper, because there is no need to
> add methanol into the process and there is no waste glycerol; the only
> _realy_ hard thing is to find an appropriate catalyst.
>
> But this way you completely eliminate the tedious process of first
> splitting the oil into the glycerol and FFA and then combining FFAs
> with methanol, to get the final product - fatty acid methyl esters.
>
>
> Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy :)
> Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol?
>
> CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 ==> 3 CH3OH
>
> The hydrogen sorce for both reactions need not to be pure hydrogen,
> this might be some other chemical, which gives off hydrogen athoms in
> reaction...
>
> So, any ideas on this??
>
>
>
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