I've been wondering... has anyone tried an old box fan motor with a paint stirrer on the end instead of a drill? I thought the torque handling capabilities of the drill might be overkill, and something with lower torque strength might get the job done.
-= Jay =- --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "bioveging" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have done this very thing with a 40 liter batch and washed it in a > poly drum (200liter) using a standard paint stirrer on the end of a > standard drill and got excellent fuel from it (it's all gone now > thanks to the Benz) :) Tonight I am going to acquire a Pony Pump and > once that gets set up I will let you know how it worked (or didn't). > The drill-pumps are not doing very well, they keep burning out. I > have one that draws water and is still operational but the two I was > using, one for wash and the other for transfer of BD through filters > crapped on me, so it's $ and Pony Pump time. > Stir mixing works well, but be very cautious of the methanol fumes. > Make it fumeless (closed) if possible. If not do it outside in a > cross wind. Washing with a paint mixer works very well and allows > for longer settling after washing than bubble or mist washing does > as well as it's other advantages. > > L. > > L. > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "dermot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks everybody for the replies. > > I mixed the methoxide with the wvo by gradually letting the pump > suck it from a carboy as the wvo was being pumped through the > processor. > > I'm fairly happy that there was good mixing because of the tests I > did after I made the biodiesel. > > Remember that I reprocessed the biodiesel a second time and got no > glycerine fall out indicating that all the product had reacted. > > I also did the share test and got a clear separation. > > > > I'm fairly sure at this stage that my problem is that too vigorous > pumping produces mayonnaise even if the biodiesel has reacted fully. > > > > I am going to try another 50 litre batch and I will use a > motorised stirrer this time. > > Has anybody got any idea about the diameter of impellor I should > use and what rpm to use? > > I'm going to use a 200 litre plastic barrel to do the washing. > > > > Thanks everybody again for the help/suggestions. > > > > Dermot > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 02 September 2004 10:58 > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel > > > > But isnt the mixing period long enough? Say you mix for a whole > day would it still be uneven? > > What im really asking is this caused because of mechanical factors > or because a chemical reaction takes place, too much methroxide > exposed to too little oil... > > Just trying to get a better understanding of things. > > > > Thanks for your time > > > > -- original message -- > > Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel > > From: bioveging <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 01st September 2004 7:9:3 > > > > The idea of methoxide mixing is to introduce it at a rythm that > will > > ensure even distribution throughout, so if you jet it all in at > once > > it might not get evenly distributed and that might leave some oil > > unreacted, IMO. > > > > L. > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Harbican" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > What about when you first mix the methoxide with the veggie oil, > > is there such a thing as " mixing them to violently " because of > > having to powerful a pump? > > > > > > Greg H. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: dermot > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 07:03 > > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel > > > > > > > > > > > > I think, as you rightly suggest, that my pump is too powerful > > and that the > > > mixing is too violent. > > > > > > Thanks for you input. > > > > > > Regards > > > Dermot > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: bioveging [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: 01 September 2004 02:46 > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel > > > > > > OK, I am no pro at this but even I can see a couple of points. > > Why > > > bring it up to 130C ? Did it need dewatering or was it just a > > > precaution? A sample test in a saucepan brought up to temp > would > > > have confirmed it one way or the other. > > > I have made BD using some really crappy WVO which titrated at > > > 10gr/liter and washed it using a paint stirrer and it tunred > out > > OK. > > > The procesing temp is too high in your case.65C will boil off > the > > > methanol which goes vapour at about 64C. Your processing temp > > should > > > not be over 55C (130F). Too high or too low will result in poor > > end > > > product.( I know, I've done it) > > > 2HP pump huh? Wow ! Bet that thing hums huh? Might be a bit too > > much > > > for such a small amount though, although someone else will have > > to > > > comment of that as I am not in the know on it. There has been > > talk > > > of a 1/2 HP pump for 200gal (757liter) going for half an hour > and > > > oing the job. > > > Are you using a good scale? How about PH measuring method? All > > > potential variables that can cause trouble. > > > I am thinking though that your biggest problem had to do with > the > > > processing temperature being too high causing a loss of > methanol. > > > > > > Anyway, that is only mytake on it, maybe someone with more > > > experience can be more helpful > > > > > > L. > > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "dermot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I would appreciate any suggestions or help from people who > have > > > experience > > > > with washing biodiesel by using a pump. I have tried > > > unsuccessfully to do it > > > > and have ended up with about 50% mayonnaise. > > > > > > > > Here's what I did: > > > > > > > > I heated the used oil, which was over a year old, to 130 > > degrees > > > centigrade > > > > for over an hour to make sure there was no water present. I > > then > > > took a > > > > sample and allowed it to cool before titrating it. > > > > I got a titration reading of around 2.7. I did the titration > > three > > > times and > > > > it was always around this figure. I added 4 grams to this > > figure > > > and made a > > > > few one litre test batches mixing 6.7 grams of lye to the > > > methanol. I used > > > > 22% methanol (220 ml) in order to ensure a complete reaction. > > > > > > > > I made sure that the lye mixed completely with the methanol. > > When > > > I mixed > > > > the methoxide with the wvo I got a very good separation and > > > everything > > > > seemed fine. > > > > I then siphoned off the top layer of biodiesel and added an > > equal > > > amount of > > > > water to it. I shook it about 15 times and I got a good > > > separation within > > > > seconds and after maybe an hour I had almost completely clean > > > biodiesel on > > > > top and white coloured water underneath. There was no middle > > > layer. After a > > > > few days I siphoned off the washed biodiesel and washed it a > > few > > > more times. > > > > Same result, perfect separation after a few hours and it > > separated > > > quite > > > > quickly initially. I will call this sample "A". > > > > > > > > I then took another litre sample of the unwashed biodiesel > and > > ran > > > it > > > > through the whole process again to see if I had a complete > > > reaction. I > > > > titrated it but it immediately turned purple so I used the > > figure > > > of 4 grams > > > > of lye to mix with the 220 ml of methanol. I mixed the > > methoxide > > > and > > > > biodiesel thoroughly and was pleased to see that I got no > > > separation, > > > > indicating that there had been a complete reaction the first > > > time. I washed > > > > it again and got good separation very quickly. So far so > good. > > > > > > > > I felt confident enough now to do my first large batch in my > > > processor. By > > > > large I mean 50 litres. > > > > My processor is an old discarded plastic tractor mounted > spray > > > tank. It is > > > > rectangular in shape but has a slight cone shaped bottom. I > > use a > > > pump mixer > > > > to pump the contents from the bottom of the tank to the top > > where > > > I have a > > > > three quarter inch pipe connected to a wand which has about > 40 > > > small holes > > > > drilled to enable good mixing. This wand is submerged near he > > > bottom of the > > > > tank. The pump is a sliding vane type and is powered by a 2 > > > horsepower motor > > > > running at 1750 rpm. > > > > > > > > I heated the wvo in a separate heater tank using a butane > > burner > > > and brought > > > > it up to 65 degrees centigrade. I then transferred it by pump > > to > > > the > > > > reaction vessel and turned on my pump. I then gradually added > > the > > > methoxide > > > > mixture (at room temp) to the pump inlet and mixed away for > > about > > > an hour to > > > > ensure good mixing. I have the reactor tank well insulated so > > the > > > > temperature didn't drop below 55 degrees centigrade during > the > > > reaction time > > > > of one hour. > > > > > > > > Next morning I saw that everything went very well. I had > good > > > separation > > > > and the glycerine had fallen to the bottom and was liquid, > > just as > > > the trial > > > > batches had been, so it was easy to draw off the glycerine. > > > > I drew off a pint of biodiesel and did the wash test by > > shaking it > > > > vigorously for about ten shakes. I got good separation almost > > > immediately > > > > and it cleared to lovely biodiesel and milky water in a few > > > minutes. I > > > > drained off the water and let the biodiesel air dry for a few > > days > > > when it > > > > turned the nice clear straw yellow. Call this sample "B". > > > > > > > > I was happy that I had made good biodiesel so I decided to > pump > > > wash the > > > > biodiesel in the reaction vessel. I added to the > approximately > > 50 > > > litres of > > > > biodiesel about 30 litres of water and circulated it through > > the > > > processor > > > > for about half an hour. The result was mayonnaise. I let it > > settle > > > for a day > > > > and then drained off the milky white water. The only problem > > was > > > that before > > > > long I realised that most of the mixture was at this stage > > > mayonnaise so I > > > > stopped draining off the lower layer. What was left of the > > mixture > > > (about 20 > > > > litres) I put into a plastic carboy and went on holidays for > a > > > week. When I > > > > came back I had three layers; the top 30 percent was > > biodiesel, a > > > large > > > > middle layer of mayonnaise about 60 per cent and a bottom > > layer of > > > slightly > > > > darker mayonnaise. > > > > > > > > I then went back to my two samples "A" and "B" which I was > > happy > > > was good > > > > biodiesel and performed the wash test on them yet again but > > this > > > time very > > > > vigorously and for about five minutes each. I was trying to > > > simulate the > > > > mixing that occurred in the pump mixing. No matter how hard I > > > shook I still > > > > got good separation on BOTH samples. > > > > > > > > It would seem to me that the initial wash has got to be quite > > > gentle even > > > > with well made biodiesel and that subsequent washes can then > > be as > > > violent > > > > as you like and you will still get good separation. > > > > > > > > Before I try another batch I would appreciate any comments > from > > > anybody who > > > > has tried this washing method. I'm obviously doing something > > wrong > > > or else > > > > pump mixing doesn't work. > > > > Sorry for being so long winded but I think in order to get > good > > > advice you > > > > need as complete a picture of what I did as possible. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Dermot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! 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