Greetings listers,
Just thought I'd say a word or two about vegetarianism, being one
who has survived quite well with such a diet. I think that the idea
that many vegetarians can't stay healthy with a no-meat diet is
somewhat outdated now.
I don't think the articles I posted links to yesterday are outdated:
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050307/006741.html
[Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Current ideas about health and nutrition are shifting completely --
indeed, the entire standard "food pyramid" guide that we all grew up
learning, with its bulwark of grains at the bottom, is being
entirely reconsidered. For vegetarians of the past, their biggest
problem was eliminating the major protein staples proffered by meat,
which was a true problem. It was one of the first criticisms I
received as a mid-teenager when I decided to go veggie, and I had to
fight to convince certain of my family members that I could handle a
vegetarian diet and still get the protein necessary.
Nowadays, there are lots more common options for getting excellent
sources of protein: a suite of soy-based products, like soy seitan,
tofu, "imitation" soy-based meats, cottage cheese, eggs, tempeh.
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/soydangers.html
Dangers of Soy Products
Tragedy and Hype
The Third International Soy Symposium
Far from being the perfect food, modern soy products contain
antinutrients and toxins and they interfer with the absorption of
vitamins and minerals.
Nexus Magazine, Volume 7, Number 3 (April-May 2000).
© 2000 by Sally Fallon
& Mary G. Enig, PhD
http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNF01SoyBeatrice.htm
THE DOWNSIDE OF SOYBEAN CONSUMPTION
by Beatrice Trum Hunter, who is one of America's foremost food
experts and an Honorary Member of NOHA. She is the Food Editor of
Consumers' Research Magazine and the author of many books on food
issues, including Food Additives and Federal Policy: The Mirage of
Safety; The Great Nutrition Robbery; and her classic Natural Foods
Cookbook.
Soy consumption is being promoted vigorously. Despite many alleged
benefits, there is a downside, which is being ignored.
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtsoy.html
Myths and Truths About Soy
Used judiciously, vegetarians can reap the benefits of an entirely
balanced diet, without some of the associated health and ethical
dilemmas of meat eating that often bother aspiring vegetarians:
cholesterol problems;
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/oilingamerica.1.html
The Oiling of America - Part 1/2
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/oilingamerica.2.html
The Oiling of America - Part 2/2
Modern-day diets high in hydrogenated vegetable oils instead of
traditional animal fats are implicated in causing a significant
increase in heart disease and cancer.
Nexus Magazine, Volume 6, Number 1 (December 1998 - January 1999).
© 1998 by Mary G. Enig, PhD
© 1998 by Sally Fallon
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/benefits_cholest.html
The Benefits of High Cholesterol
By Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD
People with high cholesterol live the longest. This statement seems
so incredible that it takes a long time to clear one«s brainwashed
mind to fully understand its importance.
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/statin.html
Dangers of Statin Drugs: What You Haven't Been Told About Popular
Cholesterol-Lowering Medicines
By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny2.html
The Skinny on Fats
by Mary Enig, PhD, and Sally Fallon
Fats from animal and vegetable sources provide a concentrated source
of energy in the diet; they also provide the building blocks for cell
membranes and a variety of hormones and hormonelike substances. Fats
as part of a meal slow down absorption so that we can go longer
without feeling hungry. In addition, they act as carriers for
important fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K. Dietary fats are needed
for the conversion of carotene to vitamin A, for mineral absorption
and for a host of other processes.
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/Case_for_butter.html
The Case for Butter
by Trauger Groh, Farmer and Lecturer
Butter and Honey shall He eat that He may know to refuse the evil and
choose the good
-- Isaiah 7:15
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/margarine.html
THE MARGARINE HOAX
--Margarine, Fatty Acids and Your Health--
To maintain good health it is important that we have the correct
intake of omega fatty acids in our diets.
Hydrogenated fats like margarine are non-foods with toxic effects and
should be avoided at any cost.
Nexus Magazine, Volume 4, #2 (February-March 1997).
by Dane A. Roubos, D.C. ©1995-97
http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
The Cholesterol Myths - some astonishing facts
by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD
high fat levels in some meats; concerns over ethical
farming/husbandry of animals; concerns over killing animals in
general; concerns over the food distribution food problem in the
world (by switching to a vegetable-based diet, more actual primary
production farming goes to feed more people, whereas eating meat
actually reduces the number of people fed because cattle and sheep
and other animals consume far more green matter than is reaped via
the animal itself).
You're looking at a splintered system - a non-system. In sustainable
practice, eg, ley farming, for one among many, the one is not set
against the other any more than they are in nature, they're
complementary, interdependent. See: Ley Farming
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley
The grazing animals on the rotational ley not only provide high
production of meat and dairy products, they also provide all the
fertility required for the next four or five years, steadily
spreading a thick layer of very high-quality natural compost over the
entire farm.
In a rational operation, the livestock works, not just sits there and
consumes. Pigs clear rough ground, plough it and manure it, ready for
food production, chickens and poultry are useful workers far beyond
the mere utility of the products they produce.
There's no either/or here, it's both/and.
There is also a huge world of supplements and vitamins out there
that more than makes up for any potential vitamin/nutrient
deficiencies lost from giving up meat.
I hope that continues to be the case:
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050307/006641.html
[Biofuel] CODEX ALIMENTARIS ENDS U.S. SUPPLEMENTS IN JUNE 2005
In fact, the best Omega-3 sources come from fish -- and vegetarians
can get molecularly distilled fish oil pills that also ensures no
harmful trace elements, such as mercury, are getting into their
bodies. Additionally, a Harvard study done recently
Can you give us a citation please? "Harvard study" can mean several
different things - if it's the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis,
that's just an industry front group.
testing for mercury levels in human hair pointed out that mercury
can come from red meats just the same as fish. Those on vegetarian
diets have far, far lower levels of mercury in their bodies than
meat eaters (I know, I was tested and was well below the EPA
reference number of 1.0).
One case? More information please.
Green foods supplements, antioxidants from tea and berries -- some
of the highest sources of antioxidants anywhere -- cacao seeds, and
other supplements can provide all the vitamins and more necessary
for excellent health that most people arent' aware of, unless
they've done a little bit of research.
Of course, I'm not opposed to people eating meat. I do believe
humans evolved as omnivores -- and so I don't really believe the
argument (which I've heard) that Homo sapiens was really originally
an herbivore. But, someone here posted earlier that if you analyze
the diets of our forebears, meat -- in general -- was not consumed
nearly as regularly as grains, fruits, nuts and vegetables. It was
a luxury item that our pre-human ancestors got every so often, and
poor people even in today's world still often can't afford.
If you have not read the work of Weston A. Price you're really
handicapped in these discussions. Traditional diets ranged all the
way from not much meat to entirely meat, always accompanied by high
health status (much higher than anything we can boast of) - but there
is NO traditional vegetarian diet. All traditional peoples ate meat.
This is not a matter oif opinion, Price was a fine and very thorough
scientist, he produced massive evidence to support his findings. He
cannot be refuted (but he can be ignored). Please see:
Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price, 1939
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#price
Nature never attempts to raise crops without animals, and one reason
for that is that the system winds down after a time, fertility
resources and balance cannot be maintained without the contribution
of the animal.
I also do believe in supporting sustainable, humane family farms,
and will encourage my meat-eating friends and relatives to seek out
those better sources for their meats. Factory farms are unnatural,
cruel, and often invisible to the ordinary person shopping for meat
in the grocery store, looking at nice, pert little packages of
ready-wrapped meats. The connection with the animal and the hard
fact of having to kill an animal to survive or eat meat is all but
gone from the better part of society. I think if many people knew
what happened behind factory farm doors, they would be appalled.
I fully agree.
So, I applaud those who are sensitive to the needs of animals, and
who have that relationship. Many earlier human societies were the
same way; killing an animal was done out of necessity, for survival.
And as part of the farming cycle, but never industrially as if
they're just things, or numbers.
At any rate, not to blather on, but I just wanted to add my two
cents, and point out that it's actually extremely easy to stay
healthy today as vegetarians -- so long as vegetarians (or vegans)
know how to do it right.
I think I agree with Kim - some can, most can't.
Best wishes
Keith
Fascinating discussion!
Best,
tamsyn
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Kim & Garth Travis
Sent: Thu 3/10/2005 6:49 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Greetings,
Not everyone can stay healthy on a vegan diet. Many of us get very sick
when we cut out all meat. Just eating dairy and eggs is not
enough. Besides, I do need the manure from my animals to fix my burnt out
land. If you read through the small farms section of JTF, you will find
all kinds of information about this. The only cure I have found for cotton
rot in the land is blood and offal. When I asked Texas A&M how to cure
cotton rot, they told me it could not be done. Well I did it.
There are many reasons as to why to eat meat. Good 100% grass fed beef and
lamb has Omega 3s and lots of CLA that keeps you healthy. It also does not
have the mercury that fish has these days. I know that some people can
stay healthy as vegetarians, but not many. I know I read a study, I can't
remember where that vegetarians have shorter life spans, on average.
At 07:55 PM 3/9/2005, you wrote:
>I hear you -- my sister's a vegan, but she eats her own eggs (ie, her
>CHICKENs' eggs :-)) because she knows they're well-treated. Far be it
>for me to preach vegetarianism -- that would be extremely hypocritical.
>But it's an issue I'm addressing now. Why eat "lower" lifeforms at all?
>Dirt would be best, plants next, animals last if ever.....
>
>-K
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