Hi:
I don't know where Keith got his information about trees depleting soil
nutrients after 4 or 5 generations of trees.
I suggest that if you check with a silviculturalist, you may find that when
trees drop their leaves in the fall, the leaves start to decompose in the
next spring. The progression of biological deterioration eventually produces
the litter, fermentation and humus layers of vegetative matter on top of the
mineral soil. The leaching of nutrients from the L, F and H layers helps to
enrich the mineral soil and allows tree growth to continue for all the
generations of trees that have grown since the last ice age and glaciers
retreated. The process is somewhat similar, no matter whether the trees are
deciduous or conifers. The biggest interruption in natural processes is when
careless humans start forest wildfires by throwing cigarette butts out of
car windows, or forget to see that they have completely drowned a campfire
by stirring the wet ashes with their hands. If you can't stand the heat in
the wet ashes, the campfire isn't completely out, and the water you use to
wash the ashes off your hands should be used to finish putting out the
campfire.
Please note that a forest wildfire is completely opposite from a prescribed
burn set by a professional forester to act as a forest regeneration tool.
j.
From: Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 07:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
Well done. Thanks Wes.
I am often discouraged to the point of being overwhelmed by the struggle.
I'm sure everyone in this forum has felt a wide range of emotions including
outrage, guilt, sadness, inadequacy and (sometimes) triumph. Our
environment doesn't always facilitate the efforts of those who want to help
it (like not having recycling in some areas).
On Tuesday, I interviewed with a company who is a vendor for Coca Cola.
Almost exactly a week earlier, I learned of the killings of Coca Cola
employees in Colombia as a reaction to their union activities. (IMO) it
puts into perspective the difficult choices we have to make to support
ourselves and our families.
If you are aware of your environment and your environment encompasses
everything effecting the quality of life of your fellow human being, then
there is a lot to be upset about and a lot of work to be done.
I encourage everyone to embrace the struggle, keep the faith and remember
that there is strength in solidarity.
Mike
Wes Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think I am seeing a pattern here. I have noticed that some folks seem to
think that whatever is being done is bad... end of story . not just in this
forum, but it seems to be abundant here. I would like to suggest to anyone
who witnesses this tendency that they withhold criticism until they feel
they can offer a solution. I try to exercise this method with myself, and I
suggest it may be helpful to others. You will notice that Keith, for
instance, seems to offer solutions. Others can only describe what they feel
is wrong with the system.
This is not a complete solution to a negative personality, but should go a
long way in making life more pleasant for all. I enjoy the constructive
criticism and solutions offered here, but am slightly frustrated when folks
endlessly tell us that everything in the world is wrong.
Wes
Hello Chris
> >Trees are renewable and the lumber industry now replants more
>trees than it takes.<
>
>The only problem with repanting trees, period, that i'm shocked no
>one has mentioned (unless i missed it), is that the earth in a
>particular area can only support 4-5 generations of trees before the
>soil is completely exhausted. Trees take more nutrients out of the
>soil to grow than just about anything else, and after several
>generations they will NOT grow any longer. So yeah, replanting after
>clear cutting is nice and all, but after a few times at the the soil
>stops growing... anyhting...
I don't think there's any basis for this assumption, quite the
opposite. Forests can continue indefinitely. Some forests are 30
million years old. What sort of forests are you talking about? Can
you provide some references please?
>And as far as deforestation goes, i'm more worried about places
>outside developed countries where no one really cares if trees are
>replanted. A lot of the slash and burn
Some, not most.
>taking place in the rainforest is regular old people who are trying
>to grow food or make money, clearing land for cattle and farms.
Mostly they've been marginalised, or they wouldn't need to do it.
It's worth checking what marginalised them, for a clearer picture.
They're the most widely blamed, though they're probably the least to
blame.
In tropical forests most of the nutrients are in the trees, with very
little in the soil. Slash-and-burn provides some mineral-rich ash
which "fertilises" the soil for a couple of years, and then, as the
fertility levels sink, pioneer weeds invade, their purpose to begin
restoring the fertility reserves. These weeds are generally very
tough, very hard to fight, like lalang grass in Southeast Asia. The
peasants are forced out, and have to slash-and-burn another site, and
use it for another couple of years. There are initiatives to
stabilise this cycle, several through agroforestry principles. If the
leaves and small branches of the trees that are cut down were
composted instead of burnt the poor forest soils could be maintained
at much higher fertility levels, with no pioneer weeds invading and
no need to move on.
>Those people don't replant trees,
Quite often they do plant trees.
>and they aren't part of a multibnation company with lots of
>enviromental regulations to uphold.
Or ignore.
Best
Keith
>
>_Chris N
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joe Street
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?
>
>Hi Hakan;
>
>100% in agreement with all of that. Clearcutting IS bad, I thought I
>made that distinction. It is also true that clearcutting does not hurt
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