Brian, Sorry about your difficulties but I really do not agree with your assessment of JtF and the fine resource it offers. Last July I was just as Newbie as it gets and after I had my first crashes I started to pay attention to what I read. If I could not get what was presented I researched it a bit and it came clear. (requires work) As I look back I really can't imagine how I would have learned it if it wasn't for JtF.
If you really want to learn this; become the student not the teacher. Before you can lead men you must learn to follow. Sorry but I truly think your statement here is unfair and unwarranted criticism of JtF. If you find JtF so clumsy try some of the other sites. As for me I think JtF is the one that offers exceptional help and it is also well put together professionally. Wisdom Jim Brian Rodgers wrote: >Hi everyone >My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night, at >least late for me. I am a morning person and I pruned and thinned a >massive area of Piñon & Cedar wood and then loaded it prior to >beginning our first titration of WVO. I say this because I'd rather >not have people telling me I am not tip-top with my labwork. Tired is >all. Anyway, yesterday evening we finally had all of the equipment and >chemicals in place. Saturday morning, I did some test runs using the >TI-83 & Vernier LabPro Data logger. It is the Vernier Data Logger >that is the most useful of the two for our needs. It has a USB >interface and the data logger software was easy enough to figure out. >I started out with the stainless-steel temperature sensor as we have a >decent thermometer to check against. Very nice readout on the screen >and easy to understand. I then removed the pH sensor from its soaking >bath bottle. We set it in tap water first and got a pH reading of 7.5, >rinsed it in distilled water and gently cleaned it with a paper towel, >next dipping the sensor end in fresh distilled water, pH 7. > >With readings of that which we could expect, we then moved on to basic >titration. If you all will bear with me a moment, I do have some >questions. I will intertwine my questions right into the JtF web site >directions for basic titration. Our hope is to clarify these >directions for ourselves and for other newbies as well. We believe >that there are several statements found here and in the email list >which are contradictory at best. >"Basic titration >An electronic pH meter is best, but you can also use pH test strips >(or litmus paper), or phenolphthalein solution (from a chemicals >supplier)." >I suggest sorting the test equipment according to preference. We were >ridiculed for using litmus paper. Why list it second if it is >preferred as a third choice? Phenolphthalein sounds very interesting. >Why not give more information on the setup and use of this test? Yes >we followed the links. > >"Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water >(0.1% w/v lye solution)." >Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important first >step Titration, which a newbie is going to perform! Standard procedure >in all technical writing as far as I am aware it to define all >abbreviations!!!! Why throw out a statement like: "(0.1% w/v lye >solution)" and not simply define (w/v?) This is making an already >completely new process unnecessarily cloudy in the mind of the >newbies. Ok, this is the second sentence in a half page description >of how to do the most important step in making biodiesel. > >"In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of >pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some >hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and the >mixture turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution." >Smaller beaker than what? WVO oil is redundant. Again, if the pH Meter >is the "best" tool and listed first in the sentence above, why are we >jumping back to phenolphthalein? If this is the preferred test, why >not say so in the first sentence? > >"Using a graduated syringe, add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to >the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time. It >might turn a bit cloudy, keep stirring. Keep on carefully adding the >lye solution until the solution stays pink (actually magenta) for 15 >seconds." >See above. We are using a continuous readout pH meter. What is the pH >we are looking for here! Yes Keith, layered information is great, but >why push it when it is unnecessary? We are jumping all over the place >in order to do one simple step. Different methods are combined in the >same paragraph. This could be the reason newbies are confused. > >"Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution you used and add >3.5 (the basic amount of lye needed for virgin oil). This is the >number of grams of lye you'll need per liter of oil." >Sheesh, I am sorry, but I have a question about every sentence in this >basic titration. "Take the number of milliliters of 0.1% lye solution >you used and add 3.5" ?? This is sloppy writing. Are you saying add a >number of milliliters to 3.5 grams? If it took 1.6 mL of lye solution >then are we supposed to add 1.6 g to 3.5 g? I don't think so. How >about a formula here? It would be clearer if you stated all of the >proper terms, weight, volume, etc. No wonder so many questions appear >on the email list about titration. > >"With a pH meter or test strips, use the same procedure without adding >the phenolphthalein. Add the 0.1% lye solution drop by drop as before >until the pH reaches 8.5." >Duh! Why not just add this value to the sentence above to aid the >newbies who are learning the procedure and keep them from jumping >around. Also, please be consistent with the numbers throughout the >directions. A pH of 8.5 is mentioned and then a pH of 8-9 is >mentioned. This leads one to believe it does not really need to be >exact. >I know it is difficult for many folks to take criticism. I am not so >arrogant to think I could criticize people that are so far ahead of us >in this extremely important sustainable Biofuels research. I will >offer to help. First I have to get a handle on what it is we are doing >with the titration. >It is always acceptable to use the Scientific Method so that others >may follow the directions and achieve the same results. In fact, an >experiment is never valid unless someone else can perform the exact >same experiment and achieve the same results. It is amazing how >versatile and yet precise the Scientific Method is for achieving this >goal. If different processes need to be used for different materials >and equipment, then describe each process separately using the >Scientific Method >Example 1. The pH meter method. >Purpose: To determine the amount of additional lye necessary to bring >Waste Vegetable Oil to a pH of 8.5. >Materials and Equipment: List every single piece of equipment and >every single separate material that will be used. If abbreviations >are to be used later, they should be identified here. >1. A pH meter >2. An accurate gram scale. >3. How many beakers and in what size? >4. How many sealable glass containers and in what size? >4. One Liter (L) Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) >5. Don't forget safety equipment. >6. Distilled water. >7. etc. >Procedure/Method: List in order every single step including safety >equipment and procedures necessary. If it is important, list the >temperatures at which the materials need to be. >1. In the two Liter sealable jar, add one L of Distilled Water >2. Wearing gloves and protective eye goggles, measure out 1 gram (g) >lye and add it to measured distilled water. Make sure to close lye >container and glass jar in order to avoid contamination. >3. Remove water from WVO. >4. Next step. Etc. >Data/Results: Only list the facts. Do not speculate or editorialize. >1. At x Temperature, the WVO had no evidence of water present. >2. Formulas and calculations. The formula for converting the lye in >the titrated mL solution to grams would be used here and the results >recorded. Formula, calculations = x grams of lye to bring one L of >WVO to a pH of 8.5 >Conclusion: Here is where all the opinions and speculations can occur. >1. X amount of grams of lye will need to be added to the 3.5 grams of >lye to be used in the Journey to Forever process of making biodiesel >with this particular batch of WVO. This sample of WVO was very >similar in quality to pure vegetable oil as it had no water and a >beginning pH of 6.9. Although each batch of WVO obtained from the >same source should be tested, this source (Name the Source) appears to >produce very clean WVO. >Sources of Error: List everything that might have adversely affected >the process and describe how it might have be avoided in the next >experiment or procedure. >1. The humidity due to heavy rains could have affected water content >of the lye. If conditions are not similar during the process of >making the biodiesel with this particular batch of WVO, the results >might be different. It would be best to maintain constant conditions >throughout the entire process. Measuring materials in plastic bags >could also prevent moisture contamination and that process should be >in the procedure. >2. etc. >Example 2. The Litmus Paper method. >Repeat the steps of Scientific Method. >We will provide the steps we used once we are able to effectively >complete the process. >Sincerely, Brian and Nell Rodgers > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
