Joe, WOW! Great find.
I take back what I said in my earlier reply today about being too costly, etc. From the data its looks like the ultrasonic might be producing OH free radicals in the water and thus reducing the amount of added base catalyst required, which in turn is increasing the yield and purity? (at the lower frequency). Also, 600 khz equipment was not around in my day of selling ultrasonic equipment, 75 kHz was the highest frequency around then. Probably the electronics were not fast enough in the 1970's? I notice they are using two different frequencies, one for the reaction (28 khz) and another for the separation stage (600 khz). The patent claims an even wider range of usable frequencies, up to 3,000 khz! Here is the US version of the patent itself: Patent I am not sure that I follow the math on claim #4!?????? -Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: > Well I found THIS which gives a little more info about frequency and > power density. It looks like this is done in a tank without agitation > and settling happens with higher frequency u-sonics. Hmmm. > > Joe > > Joe Street wrote: > >> To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on >> another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I >> expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am >> interested in this as I was in the so called " electrically >> catalized" alternative process which I as yet have not been able to >> reproduce. The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a >> reaction and I think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the >> balance in favor of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. >> Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and >> we do this already. I have been curious about other ways of >> coupling energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation >> and now I hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers >> comercially available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little >> jewelery cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time >> although they are good for assisting in nano particle production and >> electro-colloid generation. An industrial power level US generator >> might be 300-500 watts and often is capable of frequency swept >> operation. I don't think the frequency is so important from a >> quantum perspective as it would be in the case of higher frequency >> stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV radiation where energy >> absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the material being radiated, >> but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due to mechanical effects. >> Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves which have >> surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a powerful >> technique. The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in >> the recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but >> high energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does >> only affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line >> I can move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' >> First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some >> romulan friends.....sigh >> >> (lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april >> fools joke) >> >> Joe >> >> Mike Weaver wrote: >> >> > You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) >> > to >> > clean jewelry. >> > >> > Keith Addison wrote: >> > >> > >> >> > I think he was talking about a "dip tank" like what is used to >> >> > clean >> >> > industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary >> >> > ultrasonic frequencies >> >> > to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things >> >> > my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the >> >> mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the >> >> journalists >> >> instead? >> >> >> >> Best >> >> >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> > To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Joe. >> >> >> What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? >> >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> Joe Street wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hey Bob; >> >> >> > >> >> >> > You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the >> >> >> > reaction? You >> >> >> > still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US >> >> >> > can make the >> >> >> > reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to >> >> >> > get my hands >> >> >> > on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube >> >> >> > to test this >> >> >> > but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if >> >> >> > any of the >> >> >> > chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all >> >> >> > eyes..... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Joe >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Bob Carr wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > Hi all, >> >> >> > > Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for >> >> >> > > advice from >> >> >> > > more >> >> >> > > experienced list members. >> >> >> > > I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner >> >> >> > > of >> >> >> > > feedstocks, >> >> >> > > by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. >> >> >> > > But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the >> >> >> > > process takes >> >> >> > > far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and >> >> >> > > speed up the >> >> >> > > process, >> >> >> > > but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. >> >> >> > > How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't >> >> >> > > move forward >> >> >> > > unless >> >> >> > > I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a >> >> >> > > test to show >> >> >> > > that >> >> >> > > the acid phase is complete? >> >> >> > > Regards >> >> >> > > Bob >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Biofuel mailing list >> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >> >> (50,000 messages): >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuel mailing list >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> > >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> > >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> > messages): >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
