Joe Street wrote:
> To answer the question what am I talking about, I heard about it on > another biodiesel list and I'm not sure about the exact setup. I > expect it is a way of adding energy into the process. I am interested > in this as I was in the so called " electrically catalized" > alternative process which I as yet have not been able to reproduce. > The idea here is that energy added can help speed up a reaction and I > think ( chemists blast me if I'm wrong) can tip the balance in favor > of one direction in equilibrium type reactions. I do not think it will tip the balance, only speed up reaching equilibrium. > Actually heating the oil is a form of this type of energy input and we > do this already. I have been curious about other ways of coupling > energy into the system such as UV radiation, RF radiation and now I > hear about ultrasonics. Typically the transducers comercially > available are in the 40 Khz frequency range. The little jewelery > cleaners are low power and I wouldn't waste my time although they are > good for assisting in nano particle production and electro-colloid > generation. The jewelry cleaners are typically 60 Khz. Some commercial jewelry cleaners and lab units like Cole-Palmer lists, though way overpriced (like by 50%), are high enough in power density to do the job if the surface tension is not to high. The issue of best frequency would be debateable. I do recall that all these units do not cavitate the solution until the liquid has been degassed!!!!!! So keep that in mind!!!!!! > An industrial power level US generator might be 300-500 watts and > often is capable of frequency swept operation. I don't think the > frequency is so important from a quantum perspective as it would be in > the case of higher frequency stimulation like RF, microwave, or UV > radiation where energy absorbtion depends on the bandgap of the > material being radiated, but in the case of ultrasonics it is more due > to mechanical effects. Microcavitation creates small scale shockwaves > which have surprisingly high energy densities though so it is a > powerful technique. This is correct. They create a high frequency wave motion in the liquid that forms tiny gas bubbles at the low pressure end of the wave. The bubbles are then collapsed at the high pressure end of the wave front. This all happens at say 20 to 75 KHz (whatever frequency the generator is designed for). The collapse, or cavitation is said to produce instantaneous temperatures (but on a molecular scale) as high as 5000 degrees (degrees F as I recall). The energy rapidly decays into bulk heat in the solution. > The idea I am toying with is to put a cell disrupter in the > recirculation line and pass the reaction through a confined but high > energy density zone while the reaction proceeds. So yes it does only > affect a small volume but since it is in the recirculation line I can > move the entire volume of the fluid through 'the 'zone' > First I have to source a surplus disrupter. If only I had some > romulan friends.....sigh > > (lol no that comment does not indicate this whole thing is an april > fools joke) I am sure Quark ( the Feringi ) could have gotten you a great deal on one, LOL. Your comment reminds me of the Feringi "Rules of Acquisition". It is a unique piece of humor, still LOL. For instance rule number 28 is: Morality is always defined by those in power! OK, back on topic, I sold and serviced industrial Ultrasonic cleaners in the late 1970's and early 80's. They are great at creating micro mechanical scrubbing action in hard to reach areas that helps speed up and improve cleaning of delicate intricate parts. They also can mix and disperse colloidal material which might help your reaction go faster by dispersing colloidal particles in solution better and faster, but the energy costs and hardware costs, in my opinion, would be way out of proportion with any advantages. I would think that a simple centrifugal pump with high internal shear forces would accomplish the same end results as an ultrasonic unit, and do it faster and at much less cost. Hope this helps. Best Mike McGinness > > > Joe > > Mike Weaver wrote: > >> You can buy fairly small ones - they are advertised (or used to be) >> to >> clean jewelry. >> >> Keith Addison wrote: >> >> >> >> I think he was talking about a "dip tank" like what is used to >> >> clean >> >> industrial parts en masse. it relies on complementary ultrasonic >> >> frequencies >> >> to basically heat and rattle the crud out of things >> >> my friend uses them at the printing shop where he works. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > He does? And it works?? Why doesn't someone sell them to the >> > mainstream press? Or d'you think you'd have to nuke the >> > journalists >> > instead? >> > >> > Best >> > >> > Keith >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speeding up the acid/base process >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Joe. >> >> > What are you talking about when it comes to ultrasonics? >> >> > Jim >> >> > >> >> > Joe Street wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Hey Bob; >> >> >> >> >> >> You ever considered using ultrasonics to speed up the >> >> >> reaction? You >> >> >> still have to deal with the settling time but I hear the US >> >> >> can make the >> >> >> reaction happen in minutes instead of hours. I'm trying to >> >> >> get my hands >> >> >> on a cell disrupter to put inline on my recirculation tube to >> >> >> test this >> >> >> but haven't had any luck yet. Something to ponder and if any >> >> >> of the >> >> >> chem whiz's out there in e-land care to comment I'm all >> >> >> eyes..... >> >> >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> Bob Carr wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi all, >> >> >> > Time to report on my acid /base progress, and then ask for >> >> >> > advice from >> >> >> > more >> >> >> > experienced list members. >> >> >> > I have made several batches of very good Bd from all manner >> >> >> > of >> >> >> > feedstocks, >> >> >> > by following Aleks Kac's foolproof process to the letter. >> >> >> > But being the impetuous impatient man that I am, I find the >> >> >> > process takes >> >> >> > far too long. I want to start experimenting to try and speed >> >> >> > up the >> >> >> > process, >> >> >> > but there is one piece of information that still eludes me. >> >> >> > How can you tell if the acid phase is complete? I can't move >> >> >> > forward >> >> >> > unless >> >> >> > I can verify my results. Has anyone on the list devised a >> >> >> > test to show >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > the acid phase is complete? >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > Bob >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuel mailing list >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> > >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> > >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> > messages): >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
