I have to agree that social change does not happen with peaceful protests. The people benefiting from the imbalance that causes peaceful protests won't let go so easily (especially when they pay someone to fight their battles).
The fight ends up being between the only two forms of power that mean anything in our society - money and people. When individuals believe they should have more than most, they accumulate wealth and with it, power. Those who are effected by that power and are not wealthy, organize and gather consensus among their fellow citizens.
(IMO) the violence starts when the two powers have had time (years) to build. Peaceful protests are a tell-tale, signaling the possibility of violence. The conflict won't end until antagonists (ruling class) have become exhausted from the fight and it's clear that there isn't much (money) left to gain by continuing.
The reason for such an imbalance can't be placed squarely on the shoulders of the narcissists who gather wealth for the purpose of projecting power. If citizens played a bigger role in the everyday business of government, the imbalance would be seen earlier and kept from becoming the threat that it is today.
...my $.02
Mike
Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Okay, let's take this in chunks.
Not okay:
>>Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this:
snippetysnippetysnip...
Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save
space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then
the "chunks" you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You
can just take a little nibble or two in order to spit it out again
and leave all the rest snipped by the wayside.
It just evades the issue, and among other things somehow leads you to
conclude that you're knocking one of my heroes, for heavens sakes. Do
you think King Asoka's my hero too? We're not talking about
hero-worship.
Why don't you try giving a proper response? I'm not going to stitch
it all back again, do it yourself.
Who said anything about saints? Only you. Who's trying to avoid
politics other than you? And who are you trying to tell about media
coverage? If you'd been paying a little more attention you might have
learnt a little about just what media coverage means and doesn't mean
and the role it plays and doesn't play in issues such as these. Not
necessarily what you just naturally assume.
You have to skip over (snip snip) large chunks (not just niblets) of
recent and current history for your view of it to make any sense.
It's just prejudice anyway (pre-judgment). Force reality into it if
you wish, but you're not persuading anyone but yourself that it fits.
Peaceful protest doesn't work, what a load of old bullshit, same with
peace with justice doesn't exist. You're talking nonsense.
>Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he
>seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest.
>Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to
>riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope
>I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was
>wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will
>win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I
>just haven't seen it in my life time.
There's a difference between cynicism and that last little burst of
sarcasm, and cynicism isn't usually so ill-informed either. Maybe you
didn't see it because you didn't look or looked the other way?
Go and study Gandhi then, you're not qualified to discuss this issue
if you know nothing about Gandhi, let alone declaim on it. You share
a country with a lot of Indians among others and you don't know from
Gandhi? Or from the history of the last 40 years it seems, other than
via a keyhole. If you found just one instance of riot or violence
being associated with Gandhian protest you'd look no further, that'd
be your proof, case rests. Poof, you snap your fingers, and the role
of peaceful protest and passive resistance in creating change
vanishes, and so today, at this of all crucial junctures in human
affairs, you'd leave us with no other tools than a hammer to face a
juggernaut.
I think you don't really know anything about this. Probably that's
what other people said about King at the time and you've thought so
ever since.
Also please don't just brush things aside. Eg:
>>Peace with justice, D. Mindock
>
>Did that ever really exist?
You were given some examples, snipping it isn't exactly an acceptable response.
Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner[snip]
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