Look at the Linux model, it's available both as a free download - but you're on your own for support, or a nicely packaged box with support. I use both.
Appal Energy wrote: >Naw Keith. The purpose of the putting the design up as open source is >really to point out how all the co-/waste-products of biodiesel >manufacture should be handled for the environment's benefit, rather than >just tossing whatever in with a heap of brush or yard clippings as so >many do. It's also to point to how "simple" even industrial scale >manufacture is, allowing the mom and pops to no longer be befuddled by >the claims of mega-corps that it's beyond their reach. > >The Northern Tool comparison was just to point out that it wouldn't take >much to make Edwin's extruder/expeller as common and inexpensive as a >$39.00 water pump,, which would come to a tune of approximately 33 Euros. > > > So people steal things, so what? > >Thieves are a certainty. But you don't necessarily invite the thief in >for dinner. Do you think I should drop another $5,000, have the 833 >gallon plan drawn up and signed off by a Process Engineer (PE) and then >publish it open source on the web? When and at what level it permissible >for "free" and "on the house" to stop? > >That decision is one made at the pleasure of the point source, not the >recipient(s). Hopefully the motivations of the point source are >honorable and he or she is discerning towards the prospective end user's >circumstances and chooses to curb monetary gain somewhat or perhaps >totally in lieu of a greater good rather than gold-plated faucets for a >sunken, marble, Roman tub. I'm kind of thinking that anyone who's >already got a hand-crank extruder down to 100 Euros without >manufacturing at any economy of scale as of yet isn't exactly trying to >profiteer off the impoverished. > > > But if I understand you right you'd close down the whole operation > > because you're not getting the $20 from eBay. > >It's not the occasional, E-bay, quick-buck, sheisters that would bother >me. It's those who would take a good idea and profit on it in the >larger extreme to the point of being nothing but a mirror image of what >you might think (in a worst case scenario) Edwin aspiring to be. If >someone's going to produce the unit, my vote goes to the individual who >initiated the effort, not the thief in the night. > > >Can't make much sense of the rest, unless you think poverty and > > hunger exist in isolation without a context. > >Without? Now how would that be possible? > > > There's this though: > > >> 1) It's rather doubtful that those who can't afford a 100 Eu asking > >> price could afford to construct a prototype on their own even if > >> they had the drawings. > > > Todd Swearingen doesn't know how distributed manufacturing works? > >So if 100 Euros is half of one year's income, placing it out of their >reach, how much of their income do you think it's going to cost them to >have "ones and twos" milled by their cousin, if they happen to be lucky >enough as to be within 100 kilometers of a lathe? Maybe in lots of 100 >by locals who have the mechanisms to manufacture. That type of >production scale would help when matched with regional pay scales, >rather than introducing EU labor costs into a Micronesia market. But >even then, shouldn't the point source have some association/control of >his or her own brainchild, even if it's nothing more than a permissal >nod of the head to an "appropriate" manufacturer? > > > There'd been some talk of patenting it instead but Michael didn't >agree and > > put it in the public domain, and I agree with Michael. They get him > > for a song, but that's not why he does it. > >Coming to a point of choosing between open source and patent/licensing >is a matter of cumulative understanding - eventual comprehension of the >balance between one's personal needs and wants (both good and bad) and >the needs and wants (both good and bad) of others. Michael has >apparently found his balance between self and the needs of and benefit >to others. You've done the same where you invest your energies. > >Me? Hell. I'm just a greedy, anti-social, liberal, left wing hermit who >wants to sock money into my pillow cases. I guess not everyone can be a >saint. > >I'm not going to rationalize greed and/or self-interest(s) here, but the >outcome of that decision making process is not going to be the same for >all people, in all circumstances, and certainly not for all the wrong >reasons. > >But for what it's worth, I think Edwin could come up with a >production/distribution scheme that can make the unit more affordable. >And personally, I think there are probably a few people on this list who >could put him in touch with some of the right people who can do this on >a "micro-regional" scale all over the globe. It is an international list >after all, with the mindsets of most of the members being in largely the >same place. > >Other than that? I have just one other thought. If the pretense is that >Edwin or anyone is trying to capitalize on others who just don't have >sufficient capital, what is to be said of the individual who crushes his >or her first gallon of oil on some hillock using this unit (or any other >unit, no matter whether they built it or purchased it) and then sells or >trades that gallon at a modest profit/benefit to a neighbor? Why not >perceive this as similar advantage taking, just further down the line? > >After all, most of these micro-mills are being presented as a >magnificent way to generate a little extra wealth in impoverished areas. >Isn't anyone paying much heed as to where this "wealth" is being >reallocated from at the end user level? > >Maybe, just maybe, if the gods are smiling and the miller is even >remotely of "open source" spirit, he or she will be sure to charge less >for the oil than the last person who sold it. Then again, at what point >does one worry about prices becoming so deflated by too many fair-price >type of spirits (aka, competition) that it costs more to press the oil >than it's worth, leaving but one beleaguered miller standing with any >coin remaining in his or her frayed pocket? > >Perhaps the mill should be community property and nobody benefit greater >or lesser than another? Which is yet another reason to bring into the >picture some initial control / equal distribution of and access to such >a device. As long as its availability to everyone is an absolute >certainty, not a measure of selectivity or personal purchase power, >there is no opportunity for anyone in an impoverished area to create >imbalance through the reallocation of wealth from another. > > > Namaste. > >As well... > >Todd Swearingen > > > >Keith Addison wrote: > > > >>Todd, sorry, I can't figure if you're saying that the purpose of your >>833 gallon biodiesel plant is to fight poverty and hunger in the 3rd >>World, or have I missed the point completely and it's the Northern >>Tools 1" clear water pump that's helping to fight hunger in poor >>countries because it's so cheap but that's only because they stole >>the design from Edwin. >> >>Drainbow the evil thief of open-source designs no doubt exists, but >>other things exist too, like what I said about Joseph Jenkins, and >>you forget that it's been discussed here quite a few times before. >> >>So people steal things, so what? Just as long as it's still there for >>others to use. The beauty of the digital age, you can steal stuff and >>it's still there afterwards. >> >>I know what I'm saying, we're a constant victim, people keep stealing >>stuff from us, for years already. There are quite a few people who >>steal various parts of our website and sell them for $20 on eBay, >>right now probably. The effect this has on us and what we're trying >>to achieve is no effect, it doesn't have any effect at all. When we >>remember it at all we fear for their sinful souls and we wonder how >>people who'd pay the money when they can get it for nothing anytime >>and sometimes it even says so manage to get their trousers on the >>right way round in the morning if indeed they do let alone get the >>titration right but then as P.T. Barnum said there's one born every >>minute though on the other hand the world's still going round anyway >>and so apart from that it doesn't keep us awake much at night. >> >>But if I understand you right you'd close down the whole operation >>because you're not getting the $20 from eBay. I guess you can do that >>with your operation if you like, if they're selling the 833-gallon >>reactor page there too, but I hope you don't. I'm sure you wouldn't >>say that Journey to Forever doesn't count because we didn't invest >>anything in it like Edwin did. Pan ruti says an oil press from >>Journey to Forever is being used with poor communities in Brazil. >> >>Can't make much sense of the rest, unless you think poverty and >>hunger exist in isolation without a context. There's a school of >>thought that says isolation would go a long way towards solving the >>problem because it would remove most of the context. Yankee go home, >>in other words, wherever that might be, Holland or Japan or whatever. >> >>There's this though: >> >> >> >> >> >>>1) It's rather doubtful that those who can't afford a 100 Eu asking >>>price could afford to construct a prototype on their own even if >>>they had the drawings. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Todd Swearingen doesn't know how distributed manufacturing works? >> >>"The Survival of the Fitter: Lives of some African engineers" by John >>Powell, 1995, Intermediate Technology, ISBN 1853393169 >>Traces the development of Ghana's informal engineering sector through >>the progress of the actual people involved. The first generation of >>grassroots engineers are wayside vehicle mechanics, or "fitters", >>engaged in repairing machinery. Powell shows how the fitter's >>evolution to a manufacturer of tools, machines and equipment serving >>a wide range of "secondary" urban and rural industries, is central to >>progress in engineering, and that engineering and engineers are >>central to the development of an economy. From IT Publishing. >>http://styluspub.com/Books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=46425 >> >>Eg. >> >>That's why Michael Allen provided engineering drawings for Deep >>Thort, if you want to compare it with biodiesel reactors. There'd >>been some talk of patenting it instead but Michael didn't agree and >>put it in the public domain, and I agree with Michael. They get him >>for a song, but that's not why he does it. If it is why one does it >>then let's be clear about that and not confuse the two issues for >>personal advantage, knowingly or not. >> >>Go back two steps and do not collect 100 Euros. :-) >> >>Namaste. >> >>Keith >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>So who is Edwin trying to kid? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Maybe, just maybe, he's not entirely aware of how relative the >>>poverty income rate is in various regions. (A point to which you >>>elude later in your reply.) >>> >>>100 Euros isn't exactly the wealth of Fort Knox ($122 US), although >>>it remains a relative matter. >>> >>>I rather doubt that it would cost any more than a Northern Tool, one >>>inch, clear water pump at some point in time if it were manufactured >>>at scale. That's about 1/3 of the present asking price of 100 Euros. >>>Not exactly the Bloomingdale price of a Tabbypressen. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>But Edwin wants it for nothing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>All right. So what is it of fair exchange that you would seek in return? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Isn't it Edwin who's saying "Hey brother. What's >>>>mine is yours and yours is mine. But since I don't >>>>have anything can I have whatever you've got?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Not exactly. It's rather apparent that he brings something to the >>>table, having put a fair amount of his own time and effort into the >>>extruder. A Drainbow would sit back and watch while another put >>>forward all their efforts, then swoop in and start to enjoy the >>>fruit before the laborer had even tamped the sweat off his brow. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>He won't even offer what he does have - the plans. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Well? I don't either relative to the 833 gallon plant. People who >>>aren't bright enough to figure out that design shouldn't be making >>>biodiesel in the first place. And people who won't figure it out? A >>>large percentage of them are interested in it from the Drainbow >>>profit motive - let everyone else do the groundwork. Laziness seems >>>to accompany a lot of people looking for profit. >>> >>>So perhaps it's somewhat fair to extrapolate from personal >>>experience why Edwin shouldn't necessarily make detailed drawings >>>open source, at least not until he's comfortable with doing so. >>> >>>1) It's rather doubtful that those who can't afford a 100 Eu asking >>>price could afford to construct a prototype on their own even if >>>they had the drawings. >>> >>>2) If the drawings were out there, China-Mart or India-Mart or >>>perhaps Wal-Mart would be the first to manufacture at scale and take >>>full disadvantage of the open source availability. Others do the >>>ground work and they play the role of Drainbow. If they really want >>>to make a buck, let them steal it a little more honestly. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>If you really want to say the "open source" doctrine >>>>is usually just a drain of energies that leaves a >>>>person's wallet thinner >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Nope. But here can be times when open source is appropriate and >>>others when it may take a while to get there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Edwin raises mushrooms in Holland, a country with little soil to call >>>>its own. As it turns out that doesn't matter too much to the Dutch, >>>>because it's a rich country. I'm not picking on them, we're all in >>>>the same boat, and what the hell I'm about a quarter Dutch myself >>>>anyway, I've lived there, I liked it, I'd go back. However, as with >>>>all the rich countries, there is an area of land totalling five >>>>times the size of Holland scattered about the world among prime >>>>growing areas in various 3rd World countries which is devoted >>>>exclusively to raising feed for Dutch cattle, at preferential prices >>>>for the Dutch, who then use their own soil to push up tulips and >>>>stuff, that being more profitable. Pity about all those hungry people >>>>who'd be growing food for themselves and their communities on that >>>>prime 3rd World land if it weren't for the tulips and so on. Why not >>>>set the fair return you say Edwin deserves on his investment against >>>>that backdrop and see how fair it really is? *They* owe *him* 100 >>>>Euros? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Whatchu trying to do Keith? Usurp Barry Commoner's coach seat on the >>>principles bandwagon? Should it be presumed that you managed to >>>point this perspective out to Edwin in the off-list correspondence? >>> >>>Okay. I stuck my two Euros in and just burned up a half-hour of both >>>our time. Well, maybe not incinerated. Revisiting the international >>>practice of trade inequity with that dutchy thought was quite worth >>>the time. >>> >>>As for the extruder? I could easily see it being affordable to the >>>middle to upper end of the First (and only) World right out of the >>>chute, certainly no more expensive than the cheap juicers and >>>blenders found on Mal-Wart's bridle registry. >>> >>>Todd Swearingen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Keith Addison wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>All quite true Todd, as far as it goes. >>>> >>>>But there's a gap between what Edwin says he wants to achieve and >>>>what he says his goals are. As he states it, his primary goal isn't >>>>to make loadsamoney, it's to benefit very poor people, and why >>>>shouldn't he get a return on his investment in the doing? >>>> >>>>Sounds fair enough at first glance, but it just won't work that way >>>>because it'd be crazy to think very poor people could ever afford the >>>>price he's charging - about four times the cost of the thing, >>>>according to Jason's estimate, probably not far wrong. How many years >>>>will it take someone in the rural hinterlands of Burkino Faso to earn >>>>100 Euros? That's the privileged guy, the others live right outside >>>>the money economy, and those are the ones Edwin says he wants to help. >>>> >>>>Where's the sense in marketing a life-saving widget on the Internet >>>>when those whose lives you're trying to save could never afford it, >>>>have never seen a computer, and have no access to any market anyway? >>>> >>>>Edwin has to be aware of that gap, but he hasn't tried to make any >>>>alternative arrangements to bridge it. I outlined a couple of things >>>>he could try, Jason just described another, but not Edwin. >>>> >>>>So who is Edwin trying to kid? His oil press has no way of reaching >>>>the people he says it'll help. The best way to mend that small >>>>problem is to release the design, and that doesn't have to mean he's >>>>throwing his investment away. >>>> >>>>Another way might be to try to get someone like me, with our website >>>>and its credibility among the kind of people who access it, to get >>>>all involved and enthusiastic and, essentially, endorse his product >>>>for him, yawning gap and all. In the commercial world that would be a >>>>valuable endorsement. But Edwin wants it for nothing. >>>> >>>>Isn't it Edwin who's saying "Hey brother. What's mine is yours and >>>>yours is mine. But since I don't have anything can I have whatever >>>>you've got?" >>>> >>>>He won't even offer what he does have - the plans. >>>> >>>>I don't buy it. >>>> >>>>I'm not saying he's just waving the flag of helping hungry people as >>>>a sales gimmick, but I can't say he's not doing that either. >>>>Whichever, it's not quite the same as this: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>A person deserves a fair return on their energy and it's not >>>>>unreasonable to seek it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>A lot of what he says is just wrong. He doesn't seem to have put a >>>>lot of thought or research into the true situation of the people he >>>>says he wants to help. >>>> >>>>IMHO Edwin has little credibility unless he moves into Open Sourcing >>>>his design. Then I might help him, but I'd have to check it out for >>>>myself first. I'd do that by giving it to the list. >>>> >>>>Todd, with you it's just that one processor page, when you get one of >>>>those I-want I-want I-want's I'll bet I get 10 of them, day after >>>>day, and yes it gets old soon. The first message this morning: >>>> >>>>"I am Intrested in opening a plant for Bio-Diesel in UK or Pakistan >>>>because of the very cheap labour and supply to UK because of the high >>>>demand. How shall i proceed about opening bio diesel plant. Send me >>>>full information as soon as possible." >>>> >>>>A lot of different people with different interests will settle for >>>>nothing less: "Drop all the rest of your pressing affairs and devote >>>>your attention to ME." Very often they're outright money-making >>>>schemes but you don't even get offered a cut, you're going to do it >>>>all for love because you're such a mug or you wouldn't be giving all >>>>that valuable information away for free on your website. >>>> >>>>So what, what's it matter? Such pesky squeakings have little bearing >>>>on all the genuine enquiries from real people who don't just ask, so >>>>often they offer as well, they want to share, not just take. "Give to >>>>givers, take from takers." It's no problem seeing which is which. In >>>>fact it's easier than that, there's no need to take any notice of >>>>selfish, grasping people at all, just ignore them. >>>> >>>>If you really want to say the "open source" doctrine is usually just >>>>a drain of energies that leaves a person's wallet thinner then I have >>>>to say that there's a large amount of rather solid data to hand which >>>>blows that argument right out of the water. But I don't think you >>>>really want to say that. >>>> >>>>There's another issue here, in this particular case, which doesn't >>>>apply to your processor example, or not much. When rich people want >>>>to help poor people it just won't come adrift from the economic >>>>relationships between the two. Yes, Edwin is rich. Anyone with a >>>>computer and Internet access is automatically among the very >>>>privileged of the world. >>>> >>>>Edwin raises mushrooms in Holland, a country with little soil to call >>>>its own. As it turns out that doesn't matter too much to the Dutch, >>>>because it's a rich country. I'm not picking on them, we're all in >>>>the same boat, and what the hell I'm about a quarter Dutch myself >>>>anyway, I've lived there, I liked it, I'd go back. However, as with >>>>all the rich countries, there is an area of land totalling five >>>>times the size of Holland scattered about the world among prime >>>>growing areas in various 3rd World countries which is devoted >>>>exclusively to raising feed for Dutch cattle, at preferential prices >>>>for the Dutch, who then use their own soil to push up tulips and >>>>stuff, that being more profitable. Pity about all those hungry people >>>>who'd be growing food for themselves and their communities on that >>>>prime 3rd World land if it weren't for the tulips and so on. Why not >>>>set the fair return you say Edwin deserves on his investment against >>>>that backdrop and see how fair it really is? *They* owe *him* 100 >>>>Euros? >>>> >>>>Just speaking for myself, from my own experience of it, a >>>>long-ongoing daily matter, never mind the me-me-me's who'd like to >>>>leave your wallet thinner, what concerns most people in this >>>>situation is **how can they give something back**. >>>> >>>>Is that what Edwin is trying to do? You'd bet on it? >>>> >>>>No Todd, I don't agree with you this time. I think you're comparing >>>>apples and oranges. >>>> >>>>Edwin might get my attention and maybe even a dram of enthusiasm when >>>>the plans arrive, not before. >>>> >>>>If in the course of this discussion I seem to have painted him as a >>>>cynical manipulator of the less fortunate that's not my intention and >>>>it's not what I believe. I think he's just being thoughtless and >>>>seeing what he wants to see. I'd happily share a coffee and lemon >>>>meringue pie with Edwin, much more so than with people who flog >>>>Diesel Secrets or FuelMeisters. >>>> >>>>All best >>>> >>>>Keith >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Sellout? >>>>> >>>>>Someone who wants to take a worthwhile mechanism and make a fair return >>>>>on his efforts is more probable. >>>>> >>>>>Not everyone is into or can afford to live their life by the "open >>>>>source" doctrine. Usually doing so just means that the masses drain the >>>>>majority of your energies, you have an even thinner wallet, less time >>>>>for yourself then ever before and your creditors pounding even louder at >>>>>the door. >>>>> >>>>>A person deserves a fair return on their energy and it's not >>>>>unreasonable to seek it. We published a biodiesel plant design in rough >>>>>form through JTF and two-thirds of the inquiries we get are literally >>>>>demands for more free information, inclusive of engineered drawings - >>>>>obviously at our expense. They just don't get it. The design was placed >>>>>so that people could see what was involved cradle to grave if they were >>>>>truly interested, not as an invite to bleed more of our time to enhance >>>>>their money seeking endeavors because they're too damned lazy and >>>>>selfish to do the follow-up work themselves. >>>>> >>>>>Where we come from there are Rainbows and then there are Drainbows. The >>>>>former is of a cooperative/sharing/community mindset. The latter >>>>>operates under the principle of "Hey brother. What's mine is yours and >>>>>yours is mine. But since I don't have anything can I have whatever >>>>>you've got?" >>>>> >>>>>Gets old real quick And I didn't exactly see anything at his sight or in >>>>>his letter that leads a person to believe that he's either a profiteer >>>>>or someone who isn't willing to help others, even if the latter seems to >>>>>be through the corridors of "normal commerce." >>>>> >>>>>Todd Swearingen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Jason & Katie wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Sellout. complete and total sellout. this guy doesnt understand our goal >>>>>>does he? im not sure if he is just trying too hard or if he >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>honestly doesnt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>realize the best way to spread knowledge is open source. investment or no, >>>>>>he has the design, he needs to source the original, then if he wants his >>>>>>money back, he needs to step up R&D and make more COMMERCIALLY viable >>>>>>variants that would be overkill or useless for any farmboy like myself. >>>>>> >>>>>>(Disclaimer: This is completely and totally MY opinion, if you >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>don't like it >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>, keep in mind it is mine alone and should not interfere with yours in any >>>>>>way.) >>>>>> >>>>>>--- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:56 AM >>>>>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi all >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The designer and manufacturer of the Piteba oil press, Edwin Blaak in >>>>>>>the Netherlands, wrote to me offlist a week ago, in response to the >>>>>>>discussion at the list. I guess somebody pointed him at the messages >>>>>>>in archives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I wrote back and said I didn't much agree with him, but I didn't want >>>>>>>to discuss it offlist, so I invited him to join the list and we could >>>>>>>discuss it all there, where we'd have a much better discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I was hoping we might persuade him to open-source the plans for his oil >>>>>>>press. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>But I haven't heard from him again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Since he's replying to a list discussion here, I don't see why I >>>>>>>shouldn't forward his response to the list and we can discuss it >>>>>>>anyway if we want to. If Edwin reads it at the list archives he can >>>>>>>change his mind and join if he has anything to add, or contact me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>He doesn't tell us much we don't know, and I think he hasn't >>>>>>>addressed the issue of why he hasn't put the plans online. Getting >>>>>>>back his investment is one thing, but he doesn't say how he thinks >>>>>>>the poor communities he talks of benefiting are to lay their hands on >>>>>>>a Piteba oil press if it's to cost 100 Euros. Designs of Appropriate >>>>>>>Technology solutions to help empower poor communities should be free >>>>>>>online. He could still sell the presses too if he wanted to, eg >>>>>>>Joseph Jenkins provides the full text of his Humanure Handbook free >>>>>>>online at the same website he sells the hard-copy version. Or have a >>>>>>>staggered price, depending who's buying. Some people concentrate on >>>>>>>selling to big development agencies who can afford the price and can >>>>>>>put the gear to use in poor communities. There are lots of ways. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In fact poor rural communities have traditional ways of extracting >>>>>>>oil from seeds, they didn't have to wait for the industrial >>>>>>>revolution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The idea of an oilseed press as part of a development platform >>>>>>>including a diesel motor and power generation is not exactly a new >>>>>>>one. For instance, in a different thread at the same time >>>>>>>Pannirselvam mentioned this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"we have already made the small press , thanks to Keith JTF , so >>>>>>>simple to make , now processing coconut , getting good resutls , >>>>>>>future the sunflower and also the castor oil " >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I don't think very much of Edwin's case for giving the poorest a >>>>>>>future. I'm not persuaded to help him sell his oil press. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Here's his email, below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Best >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Keith >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Dear Keith, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I read your discussion about the Piteba oil press in the forum. I >>>>>>>>>am glad you are so involved and enthusiastic about the idea of a >>>>>>>>>small press. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I understand that you have many questions on the press. First let >>>>>>>>>me explain what Piteba is and why I developed the Piteba oil press. >>>>>>>>>I hope you will see opportunities to support me in trying to sell >>>>>>>>>the press in as many countries as possible and in that way give the >>>>>>>>>poorest a future. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have a small company in the mushroom business which I grounded in >>>>>>>>>1982. It is a very interesting and challenging business and I am >>>>>>>>>still working in that field. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In my spare time I started to develop the oil press 5 years ago. No >>>>>>>>>big institute, no public money, no support. My intention was to >>>>>>>>>develop a small press for the poorest in order to give them the >>>>>>>>>possibility to produce oil for the local market: as edible oil, >>>>>>>>>medicine, cream, bio fuel or whatever use they could sell the oil >>>>>>>>>for. At present they can only sell the seeds, if they have any, >>>>>>>>>often for very low prices. With the press they can produce oil from >>>>>>>>>seeds they produce themselves (farmers), find in the forest or buy >>>>>>>>>on the local market (landless and people in the cities). The value >>>>>>>>>added is high, making it possible to earn about 2 times as much as >>>>>>>>>a local wage. There was no such press on the market. All presses >>>>>>>>>are too expensive, beginning with 1000 euro or more. I used the >>>>>>>>>cheapest materials, made all prototypes myself, did all experiments >>>>>>>>>(including extraction efficiencies), imported various grains(not >>>>>>>>>all are available in The Netherlands), made the web-site, developed >>>>>>>>>the packaging, promotion of the press etc. etc. I decided not to >>>>>>>>>take all these hours into account and keep the price of the Piteba >>>>>>>>>press low. I produce the press myself in my own new work shop, >>>>>>>>>because local manufacturers were too expensive for quantities below >>>>>>>>>5000. I installed all necessary machinery especially to make >>>>>>>>>production possible in my own spare time, reducing production >>>>>>>>>costs. Of course the consumer price is considerably higher than the >>>>>>>>>retail prices, so it gives retailers the chance to sell the press >>>>>>>>>locally with a reasonable profit. Unfortunately sending 1 press by >>>>>>>>>mail makes it about 40 to 60% more expensive, but still it is >>>>>>>>>affordable and available. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I would really appreciate it if you could help me to put your >>>>>>>>>energy in developing useful applications of the oil produced by the >>>>>>>>>Piteba press. I see that you all have practical ideas that could be >>>>>>>>>very useful. I am thinking of a small diesel engine running on >>>>>>>>>vegetable oil to be connected to the local water pump, a small >>>>>>>>>burner for cooking, easy soap making practices, vegetable >>>>>>>>>conservation techniques in oil, production of peanut butter (or >>>>>>>>>made of other nuts), flavouring techniques, scented oils (massage) >>>>>>>>>etc. etc. In this way you could help me to make the Piteba >>>>>>>>>initiative a success. It would be highly appreciated. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hoping to hear from you, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>With kind regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Edwin Blaak >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>PITEBA >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>messages): >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
