From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:25:47 -0400
Bob,
In response to my note: "One day later ~24hrs, the leaves were
browning
and wilted."
You wrote:
" I sure would like to see some references on the mechanism of this
effect."
I wonder if the FFAs are disrupting the structure of cell membranes.
All cell membranes are phospholipid bilayers with hydrophobic fatty acids
pointing inward towards each other and away from water. The hydrophilic
phosphates are on the inner and outer surfaces interacting w. water.
Replace
water w.FFAs and this structure could be compromised.
After 24 hrs the leaves are more than wilted, they are gooey (for lack
of a better word).
I'd be interested in knowing the mechanism as well. I dug up a few
treated dandelions 3 - 4 days after treatment. The roots seemed fine. This
morning, a week after treatment, some of the sprayed plants are sprouting
new leaves and the sickly-looking dandelions have sent up new flowers. The
effect does not seem to be systemic.
I like that. It seems very effective against a variety of "weeds" that lack
tap roots or runners.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
Howdy
Thomas Kelly wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> What do you mean "a dilute solution"? I sprayed the FFAs, full
> strength, on the leaves of some "weeds".
I guess my assumption was wrong- when I recover ffa's I get a very
viscous liquid which would be hard to spray. but then my wvo is about
half saturated fat.
> One day later ~24hrs, the leaves were browning and wilted.
I think todd also mentioned such an effect. I sure would like to see
some references on the mechanism of this effect.
> How would I test the pH of FFAs? I use wide range pH paper to test
my
> wash water. I don't think they'll work on FFAs.
try taking a gram or so of your ffa's and add it to about 100ml water.
Free fatty acids will not dissolve well and should not change the pH
paper reading. I just tried it with a sample of oleic acid. pH of the
solution/emulsion was unchanged after adding the oleic acid.
> It appears as though some of the weeds I sprayed last week are
> sending
> up new shoots.
I'll try spraying some oleic acid on a plant or two (as soon as it quits
raining) and see what happens.
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
>
>
> howdy Thomas
>
> I am a little surprised that a dilute solution of ffa's would have any
> impact on plant life over a 24 hour period. My guess is that your
> solution contains more than ffa's. What is the pH ? how about total
> dissolved solids, ie salts ? Do you have any idea of the concentration
> of the ffa (in water I assume)?
>
> Thomas Kelly wrote:
>> I've been gardening for over 30 years by essentially "building dirt"
>> and caring for my plants from the ground up.
>> I've been know to chop off a weed's head now and again or yank them
from
>> the ground. I've squished "bugs" by the thousands and lured others to
>> deadly traps. I've never used a spray that has any real obvious results
>> (dead insects or "weeds").
>> I've been splitting my glycerine co-product into FFA's, potassium
>> (and some sodium) phosphate, and crude glycerine.
>> Yesterday I sprayed FFA's on some weeds in an area of the garden
that
>> hasn't been turned yet. Today they appear to be dying. It didn't seem
to
>> discriminate ... dandelions, wild mustard, plantain, grass .... all
>> withering.
>> I'm a bit taken back. The sprays I concoct from chives, peppers,
>> mulberry leaves etc. are intended to repel/discourage pests. I don't
see
>> any corpses. It's more a matter of faith or delusion that they are
>> working ... I don't care which. Weeds involve physical removal and
>> discouragement with thick mulch.
>> The "weeds" sprayed w. FFA's appear to be in serious trouble only
>> 24 hrs after spraying. What is the mechanism of FFA action on plants?
>> Does it act on the lipid component of the cell membranes? Is it
systemic
>> or just act on the point of contact - the leaves. If it only acts on
the
>> leaves, will new shoots be sent up?
>> If FFA's are non-toxic, biodegradable, and effective weed killers,
>> it would be very good news to an aging gardener who turns each section
>> of the garden by hand, meticulously picking out the weeds. I don't mind
>> the turning, countless tons of compost over the years has turned
shallow
>> hard-pan clay into beautiful rich soil that takes little effort to
turn.
>> It's the bending to pick the "weeds" that gets to my back.
>> I believe Todd Swearingen and Prof. Bob Allen have both mentioned
>> FFA's as weed killer.
>> My back thanks you,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuel mailing list
>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>
>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>> messages):
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>
>
--
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" Richard Feynman
_______________________________________________
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
_______________________________________________
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
