Hello David >Keith Addison wrote: > >> D. Mindock wrote: > >> > >> You know, I'm just flat amazed to find Mr Mindock, whom I regarded as > >> about as liberal as they come, in complete agreement with Rush Limbaugh > >> and the rest of the conservative radio gang on anything. And here it > >> is, in black and white. > >> > >> FWIW, which isn't much, I don't think bugs care at all about > >> conspiracies, politics, or big drug companies. I think bugs mutate. > >> Whether bird flu eventually mutates into something that can be passed > >> > > >from person to person because of agribusiness, free range birds, or pigs > > > >> being fed infected chickens doesn't really matter once it starts >to spread. > >> > > > > Then what will you propose, that we sit back and figure out how >to prevent it? > > > >I haven't proposed anything, and I don't really intend to.
Excepting that other people shouldn't propose anything either, it seems, or they'll be sneered at. > > The days of "risk assessment" and waiting for "sound science" are > > numbered, the Precautionary Principle is both the future and now, and > > this isn't it. Neither is the way bird flu is being handled, and that > > isn't all there is to it, nor is saying that bugs mutate. A bug > > contemplating a bit of mutation isn't faced with an infinity of > > possibilities. > > > > I'm not flat amazed any more to see Americans explaining things away > > in terms of political polarisations and somehow mislaying the problem > > in the doing. > > > > One thing you're mislaying David is quite a lot of serious stuff > > that's been posted here about the why's and wherefore's of the bird > > flu epidemic. Like this report, for instance: > > > >I've mislayed nothing. I specifically said I was not addressing where >it came from or how it might mutate. > > > GRAIN, 2006, "The top-down global response to bird flu," Against the > > grain, April 2006, http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=12 > > The report maintains that the solution being proposed - a complete > > shift to factory farming - merely brings us back to the source of the > > current bird flu crisis. > > > > GRAIN, 2006, "Fowl play: The poultry industry's central role in the > > bird flu crisis". February 2006, > > http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194 > > > > Do you think it's because they've been listening to Rush Limbaugh and > > the conservative radio gang or to the liberal radio gang, if there is > > such a thing? Decide which is which, then you can stick a label on it > > and pretend it's not there. > >I didn't accuse D Mindock of spending time listening to talk radio, I >only expressed my surprise that he would be in agreement with them about >anything. > > >I thought it amusing that one of our list members has recently brought >all kinds of conspiracies to our attention. Among them I count the >proposal that the US government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks and >deliberately blew up three buildings, and the car that runs on water in >violation of the laws of physics. > >Now he's telling us that the whole bird flu thing is a hoax, citing an >article with text like: > >"The entire bird flu scare is one of the most blatant hoaxes of recent >times, and the popular media continues to reinforce the baseless >story. You've been hearing about it for months and months now, and >what's come of it? Next to nothing." > >Obviously if nothing has happened in "months and months" nothing is ever >going to happen. Of course, if we apply the same kind of logic to >global warning we're left concluding that there's no need to reduce CO2 >emissions because "next to nothing" has come of it over the last few months. > >I think passages like this tell us about people whose brain processes >have just about stopped, or who are deliberately trying to mislead us: > >"Most of the people who have acquired this infection were bird >handlers who were in continuous contact with these sick birds. Does >anyone in their right mind envision similar circumstances in the >**United States**?*" > >I occasionally listen to talk radio while driving around to see what >creative support they have for the neocons in power. I'd consider it >funny except that a disturbing number of Americans seem to believe it >wholesale. I distinctly recall Limbaugh saying something very like what >I just quoted. But you're immune. I distinctly recall saying this, about spin in the US: >>>>"You have to stop the spin. The >>>>trouble is it works so well most people aren't even aware of it, and >>>>if they are they think they're immune." Quite a few times, judging from all the >'s in its tail. It's a sort of reality check when people talk about other people who disingenuously redirect the argument and so on. You can try it on me if you like. >Everybody I know who is worried about the bird flu is not worried about >the current strain of H5N1, they're worried about what happens when it >mutates into a human transmissable virus. The passage I quoted above >attempts to make people who disagree look stupid because Americans do >not handle dead, infected, chickens the way those currently contracting >H5N1 do. What it attempts to do is disingenuously redirect the argument >away from the real threat. > >For the record, I AM concerned about the effect this virus will have on >the human race once it mutates into a human transmissable virus. I >don't believe there are any easy answers for it, but that a lot of >preparations should be made for it - or for any other pandemic that >might strike. These preparations need to be on a personal, local, and >national level. Would you include Tamiflu? And would you include NAIS? There you are, two more things you can mislay if you feel the need. Just as you did indeed mislay the report I cited, for the second time, along with all the other stuff that's been posted on the subject. Meanwhile you've dealt D. Mindock a backhanded sneer, twice, sneers you apparently feel there's no need to substantiate. But so far they concern subjects that have been discussed here previously, with further material posted on them, and you're handily mislaying it all so you can lift out a single soundbyte, ridicule it, and vanish the whole issue, hey presto. Which seems to be flavour-of-the-week around here right now. If you want to go on doing these things you'll have to go somewhere else, they're infringements of the list conventions. If you want to stay you should withdraw accusations and sneers you're not prepared to substantiate and couldn't do so anyway and stop evading the issue(s). It's fine when a thread revives itself when someone finds something further to say or somebody asks a new question, or any genuine question. But when it's revived through distorted accusations being thrown at it the ensuing discussion is distorted in the first place. You can't start from there. So I don't quite see how you can defend yourself now without distorting it further. At the same time you have to effectively disignore what you've been ignoring. That would all make a lot of unseemly and distracting noise, just because somebody wanted to sneer at something it seems he doesn't want to think about, or he wouldn't have avoided it twice already so far. You can back off, if you like, but a polite bow to the list first would be in order. Otherwise you're quite likely to come back later and do it again. A polite bow would acknowledge that you won't do it again. I live in Japan, if you don't like bows I'm sure you can think of something else that's apt. I haven't expressed an opinion on any of these issues in this exchange. It's got nothing to do with your views, it's the way you're behaving. See: http://snipurl.com/pq34 [Biofuel] A little clarification Wed Apr 19 2006 Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner >--- David > > > Keith > > > > > > > >> --- David > >> > >> > >>> This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all > >>> the info on citizens possible to be stored in > >>> a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to > >>> accept > >>> that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database > >>> of your airline flights. When > >>> they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can > >>> believe it will be much longer than that. Just like > >>> your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained > >>> for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette > >>> (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our > >>> Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA > >>> and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, > >>> devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate > >>> powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder > >>> the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye > >>> Dick appear to be out-of-control. > >>> Work for Peace, D. Mindock > >>> > >>> > >>> The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order > >>> to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, > >>> airlines, and civil libertarians. > >>> > >>> *Three-Day Quarantine* > >>> > >>> Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and > >>> cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in > >>> quarantine for as long as three days. > >>> > >>> *Detailed Information* > >>> > >>> The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed > >>> contact information from their passengers, including the names of any > >>> traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. > >>> The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be > >>> provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the > >>> government asked for it. > >>> > >>> USA Today > >>> <http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-04-24-flu-quarantine_x.htm> > >>> April 25, 2006 > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Dr. Mercola's Comment: > >>> > >>> If this news concerns you, believe me, you're not alone. Many health > >>> experts, as well as airline personnel and the American Civil Liberties > >>> Union (ACLU), feel the same way about the various provisions of >this plan. > >>> > >>> The ACLU argues that the plan basically gives the government a free > >>> pass to detain whomever it wants to. The airline industry is balking > >>> at the $100-million-plus cost of creating and maintaining the huge > >>> passenger information database required. > >>> > >>> Georgina Graham, head of global security for the International Air > >>> Transport Association, also pointed out that it's ludicrous to give > >>> the job of identifying sick people to flight crews who have no medical > >>> training. > >>> > >>> It's starting to look like there's a hidden agenda behind the > >>> manufactured avian flu scare > >>> <http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/avian_flu_epidemic_is_a_hoax.htm> > >>> that goes far beyond pushing needless and potentially harmful drugs > >>> that don't work anyway > >>> <http://www.mercola.com/2006/feb/4/flu_drugs_dont_work.htm>. I guess > >>> if you can't frighten people with a flu epidemic that never happened > >>> > >>> > >> <http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/rumsfeld_to_profit_from_avian_flu_ > >> hoax.htm>, > >> > >>> you can limit the rights of travelers and collect private information > >>> anyway for the sake of nothing. > >>> > >>> *Sad but true.* > >>> > >>> *The entire bird flu scare is one of the most blatant hoaxes of recent > >>> times, and the popular media continues to reinforce the baseless > >>> story. You've been hearing about it for months and months now, and > >>> what's come of it? Next to nothing. * > >>> > >>> *And nothing ever will, except possibly you losing more of your > >>> hard-earned freedoms.* > >>> > >>> *We have been warned that anywhere from 200,000 (at best!) to 2 > >>> million people at worst will die > >>> <http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/avian_flu_epidemic_is_a_hoax.htm> > >>> from the bird flu. The bird flu epidemic hoax reminds me just how > >>> uncommon "common sense" is. Folks, where is the sound basic science > >>> here? * > >>> > >>> *How do they make the giant leap of faith that the very few deaths so > >>> far worldwide will translate to 2 million or even 200,000 deaths from > >>> a virus that does NOT readily spread from birds to humans, or humans > >>> to humans?* > >>> > >>> *Most of the people who have acquired this infection were bird > >>> handlers who were in continuous contact with these sick birds. Does > >>> anyone in their right mind envision similar circumstances in the > >>> **United States**?* > >>> > >>> *Research like this would typically be thrown in the trash if it did > >>> not strongly support some ulterior purpose.* > >>> > >>> *What might the purpose of these scare tactics be, you ask?* > >>> > >>> *Kickbacks to drug companies is one reason. Their drugs don't work > >>> <http://www.mercola.com/blog/2005/dec/27/more_immunity_to_tamiflu>, > >>> but the massive windfall from government contracts to help the > >>> **United States** "prepare" against avian flu has helped their bottom > >>> lines nicely, not to mention the profits of their allies in the > >>> government > >>> > >>> > >> <http://www.mercola.com/2006/apr/4/donald_rumsfeld_rakes_in_5_million_ > >> for_tamiflu.htm>.* > >> > >>> *And the above article points toward a second, and possibly even more > >>> sinister, reason to keep us all afraid.* _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
