i didnt explain my situation as thouroghly as i probably should have. this is my problem- I live in an apartment, i cannot store large containers of chemicals because i have no outbuildings, and the management company would not be happy with me if i brought it in the house. also, i do not have a supplier of phosphoric acid that sells anything less than buckets ( buckets at best, most sell only bulk drums) and the majority of these i have found do not sell ANY to private buyers, only companies. i know vinegar can be made privately, that is why i asked, and muriatic acid can be had in gallon bottles from the hardware store. i am not trying to refine byproducts, i just want mostly clean glycerine to use in compost, and if i can use, compost, or sell whats left, all the better. if i cant realistically, properly get rid of it, ill go back to the books and try again. as we all know, flexibility is key.
jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions > Jason & Katie, > > At the level of home manufacture, about the best you can hope for is to > create co-/waste-products that are essentially benign, as the amount of > effort and infrastructure needed to refine the side-streams is phenomenal > and beyond the reach of the average or above average home brewer. > > What you need are end products that can be disposed of without threat to > the environment. Rather than seeking out the million and one possibilities > and options, the suggestion would be to keep it simple. > > Potassium hydroxide and phosphoric acid are as simple as you can get on > the base side and for FFA recovery, with sulfuric acid for the acid > pre-treatment of high FFA oils. > > Other acid and caustic combinations only leave you with less than useful, > if not toxic, salts. > > Todd Swearingen > > > > Jason& Katie wrote: > >> i did some reading at wikipedia, and KCl, being part of the final product >>in splitting crude glycerine(at least with KOH and HCl), is also used as a >>mineral fertilizer, and can be used to cut table salt (theyre about the >>same >>as far as toxicity goes, and it increases potassium levels and total >>electrolytes in the human body, not so bad i think) but it has many other >>uses in the medical world as antidotes to some poisons, and for food >>preparation(probably a preservative,yeech). is this an acceptible >>byproduct >>or should i keep looking? >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:21 AM >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions >> >> >> >> >>>Jason & Katie, >>> I'm not sure what you mean when you say "clean the glycerine for >>>compost". >>> Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think >>>this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. >>> I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite a bit of BD >>>these >>>days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of caustic, of which >>>70%, >>>by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like >>>to >>>control how much is added to my garden .... which has done just fine on >>>pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses >>>for >>>the other components of the mix. >>> >>> I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as "muriatic acid") >>>before I was able to locate phosphoric. >>>I did a few small test batches and got good separation. >>>The difference will be the type of mineral "salt" that will precipitate >>>out. >>>Ex: >>>Hydrochloric Acid + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water >>>HCl + NaOH ----> NaCL (table salt) + H2O >>>The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out? >>> >>> The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top >>>and >>>the crude glycerine (+ most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom >>>layer. >>>The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os. >>>They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of >>>soil >>>nutrients, but I have found that >>>they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile ....... >>>not >>>only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten. >>> >>>KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split) >>>is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate ..... >>>valuable as fertilizer. >>> >>> The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail >>>into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The >>>difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced. >>> >>> Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would >>> take >>>a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail. >>>Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt >>>produced would have more value. >>> >>>***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I >>>dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water >>>and >>>add it to my compost piles. It has value as in ... can be put to good >>>use. >>> >>> Sorry to get so wordy, but your "goofy question" is part of a >>>subject >>>that is of great interest to me. >>> The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff >>> that >>>brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have >>>called "waste products" is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the >>>tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home. >>> Best of luck to you, >>> Tom >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM >>>Subject: [Biofuel] more goofy questions >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>what other, more available acids can be used in place of phosphoric to >>>>clean >>>>glycerine for compost? i have been reading for three hours, and i cant >>>>find >>>>any experiments or documentation. am i not looking in the right places? >>>>has >>>>anyone tried using vinegar? this is really bothering me. any ideas? >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>messages): >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>messages): >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 5/31/2006 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 5/31/2006 > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
