Janet, This is one reason I encouraged the introduction of using the venturi into the processor design - SAFTEY - there is no better safer way to move the chemicals from container to processor. I encourage everyone to get one and if nothing else use it to introduce the methoxil to the veg oil.
Jim Janet Van Stoat wrote: >Good Afternoon, > >I hope that everyone is using adequate safety precautions when handling >materials. >Tung oil, rich in phorbol esters, has been implicated in the initiation of >pharyngeal >cancers and the activation of Epstein-Barr virus. >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6297709&dopt=Abstract > >Many of the fumes from the basic oil stocks are carcinogenic, especially >in relation to the leukemias and lymphomas. Methanol is highly neurotoxic. > >The biggest problem is with inhalation and contact. Most people don't take >the risks > seriously. When processing, it is easy to get accustomed to fumes and >spills. >>From a health standpoint, fume inhalation is especially risky when one has a >cold or the flu. > >Working in a very well ventilated area and using the highest degree of >cleanliness >only takes a little planning and care and pays the greatest of dividends. > >Janet > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:55 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be >concerned with. > > > > >>Hi Jim >> >> >> >>>What good would the methanol test do? I don't see a relationship with >>>Polymerization. Now If you get a varnish layer like you would when >>>oxidation affects Tung oil thats a sure giveaway it seems. I may be >>>wrong but please explain. >>> >>>Also, Tung oil is a good subject here, Polymerization affects it about >>>as fast as anything going all you do is add oxygen and it happens. >>>However I have store it for years by just containering it to eliminate >>>the exposure to oxygen as I use it. I also understand the oil has >>>oxygen present during the packaging and seldom it is when I don' t open >>>a can that has been around for a couple years that there is not a Skin. >>>However the skin removed and the remaining oil is as good as ever until >>>you add oxygen again. >>> >>> >>I think the subject concerns Iodine Values as much as treatment and >>storage. >> >> >> >>>So my premise here is: Catalysts may be present but without the oxygen >>>they are inert to a point. Therefore, it becomes more important to >>>reduce Oxygen in storage and processing than variables that are out of >>>your control. However that is not to say one should introduce any Metal >>>ions in the process if at all avoidable. I think that Biodiesel can be >>>stored well if it is: >>>1) Stored with the containers full as possible. >>>2) Stored out of sunlight and in as cold a place as possible. >>>3) Processed in a way as to eliminate oxygen and metal ions in the >>>process as much as possible. >>>4) Use a hydrolyzed oil if you can get your hands on it. >>>5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET >>>AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING. >>>6) Get the fuel dry. ( use a Diesel fuel de-ox and fungicide.) >>> >>> >>One to add? >> >> >> >>>I think that Biodiesel can be >>>stored well if it is: >>> >>> >>7) Not made of soy oil. >> >>By the way... >> >> >> >>>5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET >>>AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING. >>> >>> >>Soon! I've done no work with biodiesel for the last five months other >>than make it as needed, but the other work (farm) is winding down in >>October and then I'll be able to pick up some of the things I've been >>putting aside, including the venturi. >> >>All best >> >>Keith >> >> >> >> >>>I have been wrong before and submit this premise to the greater minds of >>>the list for scrutiny. Interesting subject this. >>> >>>Jim >>> >>>Joe Street wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi Tom; >>>> >>>>Just for giggles, if you get time I'd be curious if the methanol test >>>>still passes on the 2 month old B100. I assume it will still oxidize >>>>even without the copper in constant contact. There is sure to be >>>>metal ions in the fuel from various sources. Now that the cold is >>>>here and I can only run B50 I'll slow down my production so I don't >>>>get ahead of myself like I did last winter. >>>> >>>>Joe >>>> >>>>Thomas Kelly wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Joe, >>>>> Keep in mind that I had a 1M. piece of copper tubing submerged in >>>>>the >>>>>BD for over 3 months. I have a cubie of BD that was still crystal clear >>>>>after 2 months (the longest I have stored BD other than the polymerized >>>>>stuff) and it will go in the car. >>>>> The 50+ gal (200L) of BD in question is burning in my >>>>> >>>>> >>>oil-fired boiler. >>> >>> >>>>>I'm about half way through it and with the temps getting cooler >>>>> >>>>> >>>it should be >>> >>> >>>>>gone soon. Good riddance to it. >>>>> I like the silver lining you found in what looked like a grey >>>>>cloud. >>>>> Tom >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> >>><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>>>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>><mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:12 PM >>>>>Subject: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be >>>>>concernedwith. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>While looking for info on IR spectra, I found this excellent paper; >>>>>> >>>>>>http://nationalbiodieselboard.com/resources/reportsdatabase/repor >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>ts/gen/19970612_gen-234.pdf#search=%22biodiesel%20methyl%20ester%20wav >>>enumber%22 >>> >>> >>>>>>Which talks about issues surrounding fuel contamination and deposits. >>>>>>An earlier thread had comments from Tom Kelly regarding copper ions >>>>>>causing polymerization. According to this paper other metals such as >>>>>>aluminum and iron can catalyze polymerization when biodiesel is >>>>>>stored. >>>>>>This news is good and bad. The bad news is I think it is impossible to >>>>>>avoid these metal ions. Even if the system is all plastic or plastic >>>>>>lined I bet the WVO feedstocks are already chocked with metal, and the >>>>>>fuel will pick up metals in the vehicle anyways. This means that >>>>>>biodiesel should not be stored. DUH. Didn't I read that on J2F years >>>>>>ago? The good news is that the polymerization is slow at room >>>>>>temperature. This is also good news because it means that the folks >>>>>>who >>>>>>are trying to produce massive quantities of biodiesel are going to >>>>>>have >>>>>>a BIG problem that they just cannot solve because they need to store >>>>>>and >>>>>>transport the product. And their product has a poor shelf life. Hmmm. >>>>>>Of >>>>>>course the home brewer who can make fuel locally and use it >>>>>>immediately >>>>>>doesn't have to worry. Yaaaay. Chalk one up for sustainability. >>>>>>Uh I guess we already knew this eh Keith? But I never thought of it >>>>>>as >>>>>>a problem for big oil until now. >>>>>> >>>>>>Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
