Hi Keith, I guess I am spoiled with the hydrolized oil I use that is mixed with about 50 % animal fat. But I must use a heated system in winter as I gel around 45 degrees F. So winterizing is my big project now. Let me know how you do with the Venturi.
Jim Keith Addison wrote: >Hi Jim > > > >>What good would the methanol test do? I don't see a relationship with >>Polymerization. Now If you get a varnish layer like you would when >>oxidation affects Tung oil thats a sure giveaway it seems. I may be >>wrong but please explain. >> >>Also, Tung oil is a good subject here, Polymerization affects it about >>as fast as anything going all you do is add oxygen and it happens. >>However I have store it for years by just containering it to eliminate >>the exposure to oxygen as I use it. I also understand the oil has >>oxygen present during the packaging and seldom it is when I don' t open >>a can that has been around for a couple years that there is not a Skin. >>However the skin removed and the remaining oil is as good as ever until >>you add oxygen again. >> >> > >I think the subject concerns Iodine Values as much as treatment and storage. > > > >>So my premise here is: Catalysts may be present but without the oxygen >>they are inert to a point. Therefore, it becomes more important to >>reduce Oxygen in storage and processing than variables that are out of >>your control. However that is not to say one should introduce any Metal >>ions in the process if at all avoidable. I think that Biodiesel can be >>stored well if it is: >>1) Stored with the containers full as possible. >>2) Stored out of sunlight and in as cold a place as possible. >>3) Processed in a way as to eliminate oxygen and metal ions in the >>process as much as possible. >>4) Use a hydrolyzed oil if you can get your hands on it. >>5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET >>AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING. >>6) Get the fuel dry. ( use a Diesel fuel de-ox and fungicide.) >> >> > >One to add? > > > >>I think that Biodiesel can be >>stored well if it is: >> >> > >7) Not made of soy oil. > >By the way... > > > >>5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET >>AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING. >> >> > >Soon! I've done no work with biodiesel for the last five months other >than make it as needed, but the other work (farm) is winding down in >October and then I'll be able to pick up some of the things I've been >putting aside, including the venturi. > >All best > >Keith > > > > >>I have been wrong before and submit this premise to the greater minds of >>the list for scrutiny. Interesting subject this. >> >>Jim >> >>Joe Street wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Tom; >>> >>>Just for giggles, if you get time I'd be curious if the methanol test >>>still passes on the 2 month old B100. I assume it will still oxidize >>>even without the copper in constant contact. There is sure to be >>>metal ions in the fuel from various sources. Now that the cold is >>>here and I can only run B50 I'll slow down my production so I don't >>>get ahead of myself like I did last winter. >>> >>>Joe >>> >>>Thomas Kelly wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Joe, >>>> Keep in mind that I had a 1M. piece of copper tubing submerged in the >>>>BD for over 3 months. I have a cubie of BD that was still crystal clear >>>>after 2 months (the longest I have stored BD other than the polymerized >>>>stuff) and it will go in the car. >>>> The 50+ gal (200L) of BD in question is burning in my >>>> >>>> >>oil-fired boiler. >> >> >>>>I'm about half way through it and with the temps getting cooler >>>> >>>> >>it should be >> >> >>>>gone soon. Good riddance to it. >>>> I like the silver lining you found in what looked like a grey cloud. >>>> Tom >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >>>> >><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >>>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:12 PM >>>>Subject: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be >>>>concernedwith. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>While looking for info on IR spectra, I found this excellent paper; >>>>> >>>>>http://nationalbiodieselboard.com/resources/reportsdatabase/repor >>>>> >>>>> >>ts/gen/19970612_gen-234.pdf#search=%22biodiesel%20methyl%20ester%20wav >>enumber%22 >> >> >>>>>Which talks about issues surrounding fuel contamination and deposits. >>>>>An earlier thread had comments from Tom Kelly regarding copper ions >>>>>causing polymerization. According to this paper other metals such as >>>>>aluminum and iron can catalyze polymerization when biodiesel is stored. >>>>>This news is good and bad. The bad news is I think it is impossible to >>>>>avoid these metal ions. Even if the system is all plastic or plastic >>>>>lined I bet the WVO feedstocks are already chocked with metal, and the >>>>>fuel will pick up metals in the vehicle anyways. This means that >>>>>biodiesel should not be stored. DUH. Didn't I read that on J2F years >>>>>ago? The good news is that the polymerization is slow at room >>>>>temperature. This is also good news because it means that the folks who >>>>>are trying to produce massive quantities of biodiesel are going to have >>>>>a BIG problem that they just cannot solve because they need to store and >>>>>transport the product. And their product has a poor shelf life. Hmmm. Of >>>>>course the home brewer who can make fuel locally and use it immediately >>>>>doesn't have to worry. Yaaaay. Chalk one up for sustainability. >>>>>Uh I guess we already knew this eh Keith? But I never thought of it as >>>>>a problem for big oil until now. >>>>> >>>>>Joe >>>>> >>>>> > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
