I can tell now from the responses I hae seen that I should not get involved with this discussion because it seems most people have their pat or canned answers to religion in general when there are obvious differences to those who are willing to do even the minimal research. MOST religions at their core promote peace and harmony, but Islam does not and that is a simple fact. Those who have done violence in the name of other religions have most of the time been acting contradictory to the message of their religion as opposed to following what their religion says. Let's just look at some simple common sense things: 1) The Koran clearly promotes violence. Don't give me this bullcrap about translation. Very intellegent people have translated the Koran into English, not total idiots and there are specific passages that promote violence and martyrdom at the expense of all other peoples. 2) The founder of Islam was a violent, disreputable person. History tells us this. Just those two things ought to send up some red flags.
Anyway, if anyone is truly interested in the articles I mentioned before or the snip of this passage from the Koran I mentioned, then I would be happy to forward it to them, but I'm not going to waste my time posting it here as it would most likely just be glossed over anyway. Bobby >From: "Bobby Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:02:21 -0500 > >Joe, > >I will be happy to do that as well. I just thought you might not want to >here it from a layperson like me, but people who would have more influence, >carry more clout, if you will on the subject. I will include this with the >articles. > >Bobby > > > >From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? > >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:39:45 -0500 > > > >Hey Bobby; > > > >If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why > >bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already >at > >least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm > >always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual > >passage for us then? > > > >Just a suggestion. > >Joe > > > >Bobby Clark wrote: > > > >>I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any > >>of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the "Sword Passage" > >>that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the > >>foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of > >>violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show > >>this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This > >>will take me a few days, though. > >> > >>As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was >made > >>up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email > >>claims that it really happened, but there were no others who >substantiated > >>this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really > >>happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. > >> > >>Bobby > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? > >>>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 > >>> > >>>My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. > >>>Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all > >>>that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the > >>>ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist > >>>twist.... > >>> > >>>Joe > >>> > >>>Jason& Katie wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original >mindset > >>>>of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is > >>>>supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all > >>>>that other super-spun crap. > >>>>Jason > >>>>ICQ#: 154998177 > >>>>MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> *From:* M&K DuPree <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>> <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM > >>>> *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? > >>>> > >>>> Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded > >>>> to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. > >>>> Thanks. Mike DuPree > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >>>> To: "Golf Teacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM > >>>> Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? > >>>> > >>>> > Allah or Jesus..? > >>>> > > >>>> > Something very interesting to share with you... > >>>> > > >>>> > Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. > >>>> > > >>>> > The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita > >>>> in the > >>>> > United States, especially in the minority races!!! > >>>> > > >>>> > Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews > >>>> > > >>>> > Last month I attended my annual training session that's required > >>>>for > >>>> > maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the > >>>>training > >>>> > session there was a presentation by three speakers representing > >>>>the > >>>> > Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each > >>>>of > >>>> > their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic > >>>> Imam > >>>> > had to say. > >>>> > > >>>> > The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, > >>>>complete > >>>> > with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for > >>>> questions > >>>> > and answers. > >>>> > > >>>> > When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and >asked: > >>>> > "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most > >>>> Imams and > >>>> > clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against >the > >>>> > infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is >a > >>>> > command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. >If > >>>> > that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" > >>>> > > >>>> > There was no disagreement with my statements and, without > >>>> hesitation, he > >>>> > replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I > >>>> have this > >>>> > straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill > >>>> everyone > >>>> > who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is > >>>>that > >>>> > correct?" > >>>> > > >>>> > The expression on his face changed from one of authority and > >>>> command to > >>>> > that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in > >>>>the > >>>> > cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". > >>>> > > >>>> > I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to > >>>> imagine Pope > >>>> > John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith > >>>> or Dr. > >>>> > Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to > >>>> guarantee > >>>> > them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, > >>>> "I also > >>>> > have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother > >>>> clerics > >>>> > are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a > >>>> question. Would > >>>> > you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order > >>>> for you to > >>>> > go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am > >>>> going to > >>>> > Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" > >>>> > > >>>> > You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in > >>>>shame. > >>>> > Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the > >>>> > 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's >way > >>>>of > >>>> > dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the > >>>> Muslims' > >>>> > beliefs. > >>>> > > >>>> > In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. > >>>> to elect > >>>> > the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to > >>>> > read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, > >>>> and the > >>>> > ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. > >>>> > > >>>> > Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. > >>>> > > >>>> > This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well >known > >>>> > leader in prison ministry. > >>>> > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and > >>>> > security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos > >>>>from > >>>> > across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Biofuel mailing list > >>>> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>> > >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >>>> > >>>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >>>> > >>>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >>>> messages): > >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: > >>>> 11/14/2006 > >>>> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>>No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>>>Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: > >>>>11/14/2006 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>Biofuel mailing list > >>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >>>> > >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >>>> > >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >>>>messages): > >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Biofuel mailing list > >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >>> > >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >>> > >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >>>messages): > >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Use your PC to make calls at very low rates > >>https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Biofuel mailing list > >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >>messages): > >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Biofuel mailing list > >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >messages): > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash with Live Search! http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmtagline _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
