How about simply dumping the AT, and do a conversion similar to the Soletria E-10 (Chevy S-10) conversion? Just mount the electric motor in the rear directly to the differential after flipping it to face to the rear. Then you could do a mixture of super caps and batteries to save weight. For longer trips, then just get a hybrid trailer and plug it directly to the controller/battery pack for charging and run the motor off bio.
Just my $0.02. :-) Randall Charlotte, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? > Luke Hansen wrote: >> Thanks for the input Darryl, >> >> It saddens me to read about the two failed van >> conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental >> value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a >> month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we >> all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a >> creation of our liberal media). It could just be >> expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like >> dropping the engine just to find out. > > Uh-huh. I had the 3/4-ton version for many years. Nothing enjoyable > about the space around that engine for working. Still, a lot less work > than an electric conversion. Besides, you're going to have to drop the > engine anyway as part of the conversion exercise. > >> Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, >> but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total >> weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge >> is used in overcoming inertia, right? > > The weight is the starting point for the issues. IIRC, this van weighs > about 4,000 pounds empty. To get any kind of performance (say 0-30 mph > in under 20 seconds) is going to take a lot of watts. Voltage doesn't > matter - watts matter. (Watts is voltage times amps.) You will need a > very large electric motor, something in the order of 40 hp continuous > rating. Think mine locomotive, not golf cart. Everything gets heavier > as a result. Heavier cables, heavier safety devices, heavier batteries, > and they cycle keeps feeding on itself. > > The inertia should not be your biggest loss unless you are starting and > stopping four times a mile. The GM van has the aerodynamics of a brick, > so travelling at speed should be your biggest loss. > >> >> *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the >> good doctor says, "when the going gets weird, the >> weird get professional." >> >> So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a >> starter motor for a drive motor. >> >> Why did the van projects die in progress? > > Variety of factors. First is that most of these vans came with > automatic transmissions. Adapters from an electric motor to the > automatic tranny / torque converter were challenging. Then there is the > issue of how to mount the motor in the engine space so it is braced > against torque rotation, but not solidly locked to the frame. Getting a > motor big enough was a factor. (500-amp starter generators were not up > to the job.) Then there is the cost of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds of deep > cycle batteries, mounting them securely, and beefing up the suspension > to take the weight. Oh, and something to actually control the > electricity from the pack to the motor is handy - also not cheap. > > Essentially, it just ends up expensive for disappointing returns. Best > to learn on something cheaper. > > Another conversion did get onto the road. It mysteriously caught fire > shortly after going into service. The owner was never satisfied with > how it performed in the short time it was operational. > > There have been professional conversions of this platform as well. Look > for Lucas-Chloride Bedford van electric conversions (probably the best) > and the Magna G-Van conversions for more on how it was done when folks > had big budgets. Check the specs. Then downrate everything by at least > 50% to allow for doing things on the cheap and learning on the go. > That's about the best you can hope for. > > >> >> >> >> --- Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> I think I might be able to contribute something on >>> the subject. >>> >>> I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. >>> You might find >>> something of interest starting at: >>> http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm >>> >>> Some other folks have said kind things about the >>> material there over the >>> years. >>> >>> As to the specific points in your post. >>> >>> Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive >>> to accomplish >>> anything of value. I have personally watched two >>> Chev van conversion >>> projects die incomplete. >>> >>> 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of >>> components available >>> there. However, it's not going to work with >>> aircraft starter generators. >>> >>> Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, >>> ignition: SLI) will >>> not survive long in a deep-discharge application. >>> There is plenty of >>> experience to prove this out. Automotive starter >>> motors as propulsion >>> devices will die even faster. They are designed for >>> short-term >>> operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the >>> engine); not >>> continuous operation or the load of moving the >>> vehicle. I have driven a >>> small car on its starter motor in an emergency >>> situation. Went a few >>> hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor >>> failed shortly >>> thereafter. >>> >>> If this is to be an educational experience, I highly >>> recommend starting >>> with something smaller, that can still be useful. >>> For example, >>> electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard >>> appliance, convert a >>> motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon >>> vehicle. You will learn >>> the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but >>> on a much smaller >>> budget, and likely end up with something you will >>> actually use afterward. >>> >>> Darryl McMahon >>> (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 >>> General Electric >>> Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle >>> based on hub motor, >>> 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many >>> past, current and >>> future projects to mention). >>> >>> Luke Hansen wrote: >>>> I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 >>>> Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt >>>> system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that >>> I >>>> find lying around. The range would suck, but this >>> is >>>> more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, >>> feel >>>> free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of >>> folks >>>> using their starter motors as drive motors for the >>>> cars themselves...anyone care to comment? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Luke >>>> > > -- > Darryl McMahon > It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? > > The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) > http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
